Overcrowding on Manchester - Scotland TPE services

[Talbot]

Hi All, just returned ( yesterday) from Manchester - Glasgow on the 1316 TPE, we had been down with the wee one for some guy called Justins' concert on Thursday night. Anyway, got to Piccadilly and found out our platform (14) so duly made our way up there. Unbelievable, the platform was choke a block with passengers and I just knew it would be chaotic to get aboard when train arrived, sure enough it came in on time ( 4 coaches ?) and all hell broke loose. pure madness with folk vying for seats and even to get on board, we had seats reserved but I couldn't get near them due to the volume of passengers crammed in ( so whats the point of reserving ), I couldn't even get my suitcase loaded onto storage racks as the were full to the brim, this meant I had to take it with me on my precarious path up through the aisle to source our seats. Eventually got there to find others were sitting comfortably with their snacks and drinks at hand having a jolly old time !. Me being me said to them in my best deep Scottish accent " excuse me but those are our seats" and showed them our reservation tickets, wow, if looks could kill. They humped and hawed but eventually got up and gave them over, is this the norm for trains leaving that route ?, do locals just chance it that some of the seats won't be taken, the ones on ours got off at Bolton. All around the coach we were in I could see folk eventually managing to get to their reserved seats to find the same, others perched on them even though there were reservation tags clearly on the top of the seats. Poor show TPE for not having additional coaches on that service knowing full well it was going to packed with all the concert goers going back up the road. Wouldn't do it again for love nor money.
Cheers. rant over.

 

[185]

"The change of operator to First Transpennine Express for the Manchester-Scottish service will see great improvements for passengers, indeed a 'step-change' in customer service." - Vernon Barker, former Managing Director, Transpennine Express, now the Head of FirstGroup Rail.

Are you saying that Mr. Perfect is wrong? Oh my!

Can't forget.....
"Three coach trains will be more than adequate for the Arriva Transpennine former route." - VB, 2003

 

[PHILIPE]

Additional coaches ? TPE might have been grateful to you if you could have told them from where they would come. This is not an isolated nationwide happening but there is no spare stock just to strengthen on a one off occasion. There may be some slack at evenings and weekends but not that at thos time on a weekday.

 

[snail]

Welcome to a normal day on TransPennineExpress north west.

I don't get the bit about TPE knowing it would be busy because of "all the concert goers going back up the road" if this was the middle of the day. Was your concert the previous night? To be honest 20,000 people at the MEN Arena isn't going to have much impact when you think that Manchester regularly has concerts and a couple of football teams that can attract the odd crowd. All that on top of the thousands that work in the city centre and commute on a daily basis.

 

[Talbot]

Additional coaches ? TPE might have been grateful to you if you could have told them from where they would come. This is not an isolated nationwide happening but there is no spare stock just to strengthen on a one off occasion. There may be some slack at evenings and weekends but not that at thos time on a weekday.

Oh, so defensive, as for " this is not an isolated nationwide happening " I am acutely aware of that, I work as train crew. My post is relating to how I found my return journey and the madness it incurred, there were plenty of regular passengers whom I overheard making the remarks about the overcrowding.

 

[snail]

My post is relating to how I found my return journey and the madness it incurred, there were plenty of regular passengers whom I overheard making the remarks about the overcrowding.

Yes, because it's always overcrowded. Has been since the day DafT refused TPE the 4-car trains they had originally asked for.

 

[Talbot]

Yes, because it's always overcrowded. Has been since the day DafT refused TPE the 4-car trains they had originally asked for.

Thats the sort of reply you could have gave initially, my post did ask if this was the "norm".

 

[Skimble19]

Leaving the petty bickering from the OP aside, the new 350s will be here by the end of the year releasing some more 185s, giving a few more units to double up services.

 

[Talbot]

Leaving the petty bickering from the OP aside, the new 350s will be here by the end of the year releasing some more 185s, giving a few more units to double up services.

Don't see any bickering on any posts, only reasonable remarks.

 

[Lampshade]

The 1316 off Piccadilly is arguably the worst service for overcrowding in the North West, not a huge surprise that it was as busy as you describe.

 

[185]

Yes, because it's always overcrowded. Has been since the day DafT refused TPE the 4-car trains they had originally asked for.

Not completely true. At the time of bidding, FKTPE offered more trains (units) than Arriva's bid, although, 3 car unlike Arriva's 4 car bid. Overall, both bids were for a quite similar number of carriages.

The refusal by the DfT was four years into the franchise when FKTPE realised (and accepted) the year earlier the passenger numbers didn't fit into the trains.

 

[Talbot]

The 1316 off Piccadilly is arguably the worst service for overcrowding in the North West, not a huge surprise that it was as busy as you describe.

Thank you Lampshade, so for someone like myself who has no local knowledge of this it was quite an experience when boarding. I have never been there before so didn't know what to expect, but I sure wasn't expecting what we got. As mentioned earlier, I work as train crew and some times work heavily congested turns out of Glasgow when concerts, football, Christmas shoppers are on the go, but it pales into oblivion compared to that yesterday, absolute bedlam, hence my post on here to ask regulars if it's kind of norm for you, seems it is.

 

[aylesbury]

I did not realise how full these trains are until last night I passed a Glasgow bound TPE (I was on a Virgin unit to MK) .The TPE was very full and I noted that some seats had reservation tags on and were empty so some people must respect reservations.Talked to a couple of chaps at Glasgow who came up in the morning on this service from Manchester and said how good it is.

 

[bluenoxid]

Yes, this is normal. The current trains do not offer enough capacity for this service and personally the jury is out whether the new trains will offer enough.

It is carnage because there are so many people trying to use the service. The train is fighting up the congested Manchester-Bolton-Preston with long distance passengers.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

For events like this, I do wonder why First don't decide 'right, the services are going to be packed, so let's hire in some coaches to get passengers to key destinations like Bolton, Preston, and Glasgow straight from Victoria as it's close enough to the MEN'
Surely that would be a logical approach, First would be able to increase their profits even more. And even if it doesn't work, I can understand the flaws but it is an idea that could be looked at further.

 

[Starmill]

Could have been worse. You could have been (yesterday) on the 1829 London Midland service to from Euston to Crewe. Eight coaches of full and standing hell, which persisted until Stafford*. And you can forget about a seat reservation.

*Please nobody go "MEeeeheh didn't ya know it divdes at Northampton?"

 

[snail]

For events like this, I do wonder why First don't decide 'right, the services are going to be packed, so let's hire in some coaches to get passengers to key destinations like Bolton, Preston, and Glasgow straight from Victoria as it's close enough to the MEN'

The OP's comment about events is a bit of a red herring. They were on the 1316 service on a Friday afternoon. I didn't get an answer about when the concert finished but I'm guessing about 15 hours previously (i.e. the night before). A special leaving after the concert would have been no use to the OP.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Coming online to be my usual "wet blanket" to douse the bright shining intentions and aspirations of some of our forum membership, there are only so many ways of utilising the existing paths that are used by the existing fleet stocks of TOCs.

Was someone thinking of asking Northern Rail to "spare us some Pacers, guv" when these one-off events occur....

 

[Robert Taggart]

Welcome to MANCY - 'MANCY PICCADILLY' particularly !
Catching any long distance train from platforms 13/14 be a battle most times.
Public transport would be wonderful - were it not for the 'Great British' public !!

Those of us 'in the know' will catch an Eastbound long distance service at Oxford Road (most such stop there) - in order to be in 'poll position' upon the disembarkation of other passengers at Piccadilly. Westbound long distance services can be a bit more tricky - Stockport or Mancy Airport be the best boarding points if possible.

 

[northwichcat]

Additional coaches ? TPE might have been grateful to you if you could have told them from where they would come. This is not an isolated nationwide happening but there is no spare stock just to strengthen on a one off occasion. There may be some slack at evenings and weekends but not that at thos time on a weekday.

Maybe the coaches that were used on Manchester-Scotland services prior to the Dec 07 timetable change which instead got used to enhance North Wales to London services?

 

[Starmill]

Coming online to be my usual "wet blanket" to douse the bright shining intentions and aspirations of some of our forum membership, there are only so many ways of utilising the existing paths that are used by the existing fleet stocks of TOCs.

Was someone thinking of asking Northern Rail to "spare us some Pacers, guv" when these one-off events occur....

That is, if they aren't themselves begging anyone and everyone for the bloomin' things!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Maybe the coaches that were used on Manchester-Scotland services prior to the Dec 07 timetable change which instead got used to enhance North Wales to London services?

A most incisive posting reflective of "what might have been"...:cry:

Incidentally, the original thread title of "Bedlam at Manchester" did make one hark back to the conditions that the unfortunates who were resident at Bedlam had to suffer, when peak-hour rail travel in to be encountered in the Manchester region in general.

 

[tbtc]

It's a very busy route at weekends, but the Manchester - Glasgow service can be fairly quiet midweek (once you get away from the busy Bolton section).

At least its getting some improvement, with electrification, new 80m 350/4s and then presumably longer trains again later in the decade.

Remember that pre-Voyagers this was often just a two coach 158.

 

[snail]

Maybe the coaches that were used on Manchester-Scotland services prior to the Dec 07 timetable change which instead got used to enhance North Wales to London services?

4-car voyagers have roughly the same number of seats as a 3-car 185 so it wouldn't have helped unless used to provide extra services, and there probably aren't the paths on the WCML to do that.

 

[Talbot]

The OP's comment about events is a bit of a red herring. They were on the 1316 service on a Friday afternoon. I didn't get an answer about when the concert finished but I'm guessing about 15 hours previously (i.e. the night before). A special leaving after the concert would have been no use to the OP.

you didn't get an answer because I already stated it was the previous evening the concert was on, we have a nine year old so trailing her back up late at night wasn't an option, therefore we stayed in hotel.

 

[dk1]

Could have been worse. You could have been (yesterday) on the 1829 London Midland service to from Euston to Crewe. Eight coaches of full and standing hell, which persisted until Stafford*. And you can forget about a seat reservation.

*Please nobody go "MEeeeheh didn't ya know it divdes at Northampton?"

I saw tweets from Virgin Trains Rugby that warned those waiting for the 09.53 LM service to Euston that is was full & standing too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a very busy route at weekends, but the Manchester - Glasgow service can be fairly quiet midweek (once you get away from the busy Bolton section).

At least its getting some improvement, with electrification, new 80m 350/4s and then presumably longer trains again later in the decade.

Remember that pre-Voyagers this was often just a two coach 158.

There was an article recently in MR reguarding the Manchester-Scotland from a TPx manager. He stated that the weekend market particually on the Edinburgh route was huge & that they wanted to tap into that more after electrification. Six-car 185s will be used wherever possible but these are in much demand right across the North.

 

[snail]

you didn't get an answer because I already stated it was the previous evening the concert was on, we have a nine year old so trailing her back up late at night wasn't an option, therefore we stayed in hotel.

Thanks. But do you really expect the train operator to put on extra coaches on a lunchtime service because there was a concert in town the night before? The train was overcrowded because it was a Friday afternoon service to Scotland. TPE have strengthened other services by running 6-car trains but, unfortunately for you, not that one.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Another poster who expects reserved seats to be left empty.

Since based on observation up to half of reservations are never filled, would you want these all left empty? Surely that would then mean even more of the aisles full.

Yes people who sit in reserved seats should expect to move, but to expect them to stand rather than use an empty seat is just daft.

 

[railjock]

Used to travel a lot between Preston and Edinburgh. I never thought these TPE trains were comfortable enough for that length of journey and always tried to get a Virgin Voyager if possible.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Is there a snowball in hells chance - once the line is electrified, of putting on a relief train at weekends loco-hauled (are there any spare ETH fitted 25 kv AC locos)? Any spare stock for that matter -HST carriages converted?

I am just trying out of the box thinking.