I think I've committed Fraud... Advice please

[Casper18]

Hi,

I travel to and from work with a weekly bus and train pass.

Without giving any excuses, I tampered with my latest weekly ticket by changing the expiry date on it.

I was caught out, questioned and read my rights.

No doubt I will be prosecuted for this silly action but could anyone tell me what the likely outcome will be?

Many thanks,

 

[revenueadvice]

The train company that you have attempted to defraud will almost certainly push for a prosecution. If they use the regulation of railways act then it will lead to a criminal record and hefty fine. If they go with railway byelaws (byelaw 20) then you may not have criminal record but will still get a hefty fine.

This isn't the sort of thing I would normally expect a company to settle out of court....but I did deal with a very similar incident myself. The company pushed for prosecution but the defendant made a generous offer to settle out of court. The company accepted that. I would think this is an exception to the rule though.

When you was cautioned what did you say to the inspector?

 

[FGW_DID]

Just amend the post title to:
"I have committed fraud"

If found guilty, it depends on the judge and their sentencing guidelines but you will unfortunately have a criminal record.

 

[Casper18]

Is there not a chance that I will be let off with a caution as I have not committed an offence before?

What do you mean by a 'hefty' fine?

I didn't say anything to the inspector apart from answering all of his questions, mainly regarding 'did I know what I was doing'.

 

[revenueadvice]

You would have been cautioned by the inspector. The purpose of the caution is to make you aware that they are taking evidence which can be used in court. It is not a caution to say "don't do it again". Once the inspector sends in his report, the company prosecutors will decide where to go with it. They would normally push for prosecution unless there is any mitigating circumstances you can give as to why you should be let off?

You can be fined up to £1000 or face 3 months in prison or both. Prison is unlikely.

What answers did you give to the questions you were asked?

 

[Barn]

I didn't say anything to the inspector apart from answering all of his questions, mainly regarding 'did I know what I was doing'.

And what did you answer to that question?

 

[Deerfold]

You would have been cautioned by the inspector. The purpose of the caution is to make you aware that they are taking evidence which can be used in court. It is not a caution to say "don't do it again". Once the inspector sends in his report, the company prosecutors will decide where to go with it. They would normally push for prosecution unless there is any mitigating circumstances you can give as to why you should be let off?

You can be fined up to £1000 or face 3 months in prison or both. Prison is unlikely.

What answers did you give to the questions you were asked?

I think the OP is talking about this type of caution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_caution

 

[revenueadvice]

Yeah so do I. A lot of people get confused when they are cautioned, they think they are being given a stern warning not travel without a ticket again.

 

[Casper18]

I was aware he was questioning me and taking evidence but wasn't really given time to, or made aware of the fact that I could give a reason for mitigating circumstances.

Although it is no excuse, it is, or would be worth mentioning I recently had to take time off work for mental health reason, thus currently having a lot less money at the moment than I usually would.

He asked three questions along the lines of 'were you aware you were doing this?' which of course I replied yes to.

That sized fine and a possible prsion sentence seems pretty large for frauding a ticket worth £27.

 

[jon0844]

How can you 'think' you've committed fraud?

You have - so now you're at the mercy of the train company and don't have a lot of options, besides begging for mercy and perhaps settling out of court.

Depends if the TOC wants to make an example of fraudsters to discourage others from trying.

 

[Monty]

Hi,

I travel to and from work with a weekly bus and train pass.

Without giving any excuses, I tampered with my latest weekly ticket by changing the expiry date on it.

I was caught out, questioned and read my rights.

No doubt I will be prosecuted for this silly action but could anyone tell me what the likely outcome will be?

Many thanks,

From reading this I would say the TOC involved have more than enough evidence to secure a 5 3a prosecution of the Regulation of the Railways Act 1889, which upon conviction carries a criminal record. As for punishment I can only speculate, but I imagine you could be facing a fine, victim surcharge, the fare owed and court costs.

It could also depend what you said when questioned under caution, how many days you used the altered ticket, was it your intent to avoid paying the fare etc. the TOC may argue it could have lost a weeks worth of revenue or more if you hadn't been caught. Seeking legal advice is strongly reccemended.

 

[Casper18]

Because I genuinely didn't think of it as fraud within my premeditation of doing it. Obviously this was wrong and an error, but I didn't think of the gravity or consequences.

 

[revenueadvice]

Ok so as it stands you have admitted under caution intent to avoid your rail fare. The company should write to you for a full explanation of why you attempted to defraud the rail company. If you have an on going mental health issue , depending on what it is then that may help your cause but I think you would have to be able to show you were not of a fit state of mind.

The fines have to be hefty to deter people from committing fraud..

 

[Nick W]

The railway are going to be very interested in how long you've been committing fraud for. I would make sure you find all your old and un-tampered tickets and keep them in a very safe location.

This isn't the sort of thing I would normally expect a company to settle out of court....but I did deal with a very similar incident myself. The company pushed for prosecution but the defendant made a generous offer to settle out of court. The company accepted that. I would think this is an exception to the rule though.

Why not? Surely the company will go down the path that leads to the most revenue.

Although it is no excuse, it is, or would be worth mentioning I recently had to take time off work for mental health reason, thus currently having a lot less money at the moment than I usually would.

Correct - it doesn't make you not-guilty, but would probably reduce the severity of the fine inflicted were it to go to court.

 

[michael769]

I'd be surprised if they went for a byelaw offence for this one, if the prosecutors are on the ball and have the altered ticket in their position then a charge under the Fraud Act cannot be ruled out.

Fines are based on income so it is hard to predict a precise amount especially as we don't know what offence but as a starting point expect 100% of weekly income for fare evasion or up to 150% of income for a fraud charge. The court will consider a 1/3 reduction for an early guilty plea To this will be added a 20% victim surcharge and prosecution costs (expect up to £100 on an early guilty plea) and possibly a compensation order.

Conviction will result in a criminal record for a Crime of Dishonesty, and this, you may find, could have more lasting negative consequences for your future than the fine, such as increased insurance costs, difficulty obtaining cheap credit or even difficulty obtaining employment in many occupations.

 

[Ferret]

Why not? Surely the company will go down the path that leads to the most revenue.

Hmmm, it depends. This type of offence often leads to a Court appearance regardless of any offers to settle out of Court.

As a general observation, has anyone else noticed how there's always an excuse offered for blatant fare evasion? Seems to be a recurring theme in recent threads.

 

[Casper18]

I have not once given 'an excuse' for my wrong actions. I have mentioned possible reasons which may have effected my poor decisions, but not once have I tried to make an excuse for my actions.

I am insulted to be a part of your generalisation and if you havn't got anything productive to add then I suggest you wait until you have.

I am simply a person who has make a conscious mistake, wants to deal with it in the best way possible and move on with my life.

 

[island]

Conviction will result in a criminal record for a Crime of Dishonesty, and this, you may find, could have more lasting negative consequences for your future than the fine, such as increased insurance costs, difficulty obtaining cheap credit or even difficulty obtaining employment in many occupations.

Not sure about that bit.

However, in the event of a conviction, Compensation would probably be ordered in the amount of the fares avoided by the fraud.

 

[rdwarr]

It's yet another case of people underestimating the seriousnes of contravening railway regulations. Sure, it was "only £27" but what would you expect to happen if you nicked a £27 bottle of whisky from your local shop?

 

[Casper18]

You're right, I did underestimate the seriousness and will not do so again.

If I stole a £27 pound bottle of whisky from a shop (if it was my first time) I would expect a warning, paying for or replacing ther goods and something like hours community service.

 

[jon0844]

As a general observation, has anyone else noticed how there's always an excuse offered for blatant fare evasion? Seems to be a recurring theme in recent threads.

Oh absolutely, and even the wording of some first posts are almost as if there's a template out there on another site somewhere that people are using to compose their story before posting here (or they simply copy what has already been said and modify it).

I guess an excuse (e.g. medical condition) and the 'can't afford to get a criminal record as it will affect my future work prospects' is to try and get the quickest and most sympathetic response - but people aren't miracle workers and, more importantly, aren't necessarily going to help do anything that stops justice being done.

It's yet another case of people underestimating the seriousnes of contravening railway regulations. Sure, it was "only £27" but what would you expect to happen if you nicked a £27 bottle of whisky from your local shop?

Sadly these days, probably not a lot. You'd perhaps be made to give it back and risk being banned from the store. Some larger supermarkets might make a civil claim, but I bet many wouldn't bother. The police wouldn't be interested in the slightest.

And that's why people will chance things, and I believe that too many out of court settlements will actually harm the train operators in the long run. For one, the TOC doesn't get the publicity that it could use to deter others.

 

[Casper18]

I have come here to ask advice on a fraudulent activity I have admitted to.

Why am I being generalised as someone who is seeking sympathy.

I havn't used my mental health condition as an 'excuse'. I am offering it as a possible reason for part of my actions -certainly not my actions in their entirety.

I fully expect justice to be done, and I will except my prosecution if it is fair.

jonmorris0844 and Ferret, you have insulted and saddened me in your comments. I was hoping for constructive advice as this is a forum, not to be labelled and shunned as an excuse maker and responsibility avoider.

 

[Ferret]

I have not once given 'an excuse' for my wrong actions. I have mentioned possible reasons which may have effected my poor decisions, but not once have I tried to make an excuse for my actions.

One and the same thing.

I am insulted to be a part of your generalisation and if you havn't got anything productive to add then I suggest you wait until you have.

Thanks for the advice! I'm sure the many people who pay their train fare were insulted by your attempts to avoid your fare.

I am simply a person who has make a conscious mistake, wants to deal with it in the best way possible and move on with my life.

Well, fine! But it may well be that you have to accept the consequences of your actions - those being a criminal record, a fine, and possible hardships if you ever want to apply for a job.

As you believe there are mitigating circumstances, perhaps you should consider appointing a Solicitor to act on your behalf in attempt to lessen the consequences to your future. Given the severity of the offence, I'd strongly advise this course of action, especially if the railway company are not minded to settle out of Court.

 

[Casper18]

You are honestly saying that an excuse is the same as a reason?

I am more than happy to accept the consequences and if I ever leave or have to leave my current job (I have been working since the age of 14 as your tone seems to suggest otherwise) I am sure this will result in hardships gaining another.

Your comments are brash, cheeky and sarcastic. yet you are allowed to say them on here and people are supporting your baiting of me.

Just as I am sure people would be insulted by my actions (which i intend never to make again), as a new member of this community i am insulted by your words.

 

[jon0844]

I don't accept that modifying the date on a ticket was a mistake. And I don't work for the railway; but did used to pay over £3,500 a year for a season ticket that made me rather angry when seeing others defrauding the same railway that had to then charge ME more money. Sure, you can say it's none of my business and tell me to butt out - but that's still how I felt, and no doubt every other fare paying passenger around you would think too.

So, indirectly, you were defrauding me and so I don't think it's unreasonable for me to have little sympathy for your actions - which I will not accept as you 'thinking' you committed fraud or did so in a 'moment of madness' or because you had a brain fade, forgot to take your medication, took too much medication, was in a bad mood or - more honestly - thought 'f**k it, I pay too much to travel and they won't notice'.

 

[Casper18]

It seems that you have looked at my postings, generalised and concentrated purely on the part where I have done wrong and antagonised the situation.

Apart from the fact I have not paid for a train journey and purposefully tried to avoid it, you know nothing about me but still feel it is okay to pass judgement.

 

[michael769]

Not sure about that bit.

However, in the event of a conviction, Compensation would probably be ordered in the amount of the fares avoided by the fraud.

If the conviction comes to the attention of CIFAS (which it may if the OP applies for household insurance products that requires them to reveal unspent convictions) then details will be available to prospective lenders who may draw conclusions from it about the level of risk associated with any loans they may offer. In general higher risk loans involve higher interest rates.

 

[Ferret]

You are honestly saying that an excuse is the same as a reason?

I am more than happy to accept the consequences and if I ever leave or have to leave my current job (I have been working since the age of 14 as your tone seems to suggest otherwise) I am sure this will result in hardships gaining another.

Your comments are brash, cheeky and sarcastic. yet you are allowed to say them on here and people are supporting your baiting of me.

Just as I am sure people would be insulted by my actions (which i intend never to make again), as a new member of this community i am insulted by your words.

No, I'm just making truthful observations, both in general and about your specific circumstances. I'd hardly call that baiting of you!

 

[Casper18]

I just wanted some advice is all.

I know I've done wrong, will try not to do so again, and am generally sorry and dissapointed in myself.

Thank you for all of the help and advice.

Apologies to anyone I have insulted with my story and actions.

 

[jon0844]

It seems that you have looked at my postings, generalised and concentrated purely on the part where I have done wrong and antagonised the situation.

Apart from the fact I have not paid for a train journey and purposefully tried to avoid it, you know nothing about me but still feel it is okay to pass judgement.

Ever heard of first impressions? You came on here and the only thing you've said is that you defrauded the railway by illegally tampering with your ticket - but even then, you said you thought you had. Well, people have been quite fair in saying that you definitely have!

What other impression of you can anyone expect to get? That you're normally a nice guy that doesn't break the law? How could anyone know and what difference does that make anyway?