Staff policy with regard to appearance

[pt_mad]

What are the TOCs' rules generally with regard to male facial hair/beards on the railways?

 

[SJN]

Hi

The company I worked for until recently (not a TOC) had a policy that you had to be clean shaven. This simply meant that staff couldnt come to work with stubble. If they had a beard, that was fine but it was either a proper beard or nothing.

 

[richw]

Hi

The company I worked for until recently (not a TOC) had a policy that you had to be clean shaven. This simply meant that staff couldnt come to work with stubble. If they had a beard, that was fine but it was either a proper beard or nothing.

How do you get to a proper beard without going through stubble first?

 

[ainsworth74]

How do you get to a proper beard without going through stubble first?

Take a holiday and grow it on your own time?

 

[Mojo]

Take a holiday and grow it on your own time?

Reminds me of a conversation I had with my boss a few years ago.

Me: ''I'm off for a haircut, back later''
Boss: ''Not in work time?''
Another manager: ''It grows in work time though''
Boss: ''Not all of it''
Me: ''Only part of the haircut is in work time''

(the haircut was all of course in my own time, but I think he misunderstood!)

 

[pt_mad]

Hi

The company I worked for until recently (not a TOC) had a policy that you had to be clean shaven. This simply meant that staff couldnt come to work with stubble. If they had a beard, that was fine but it was either a proper beard or nothing.

Ahhh. So if the policy says clean shaven that means a beard is ok as long as its neat? I always thought clean shaven meant no facial hair whatsoever.

Is clean shaved just hair in around/above/below the mouth but not on sides of face or does it mean all over is ok as long as its above a certain length?



Definition
describes a man who has no hair on the lower part of his face



clean-shav·en (klnshvn)
adj.
1. Having the beard or hair shaved off.
2. Having recently shaved.

3. (of men) having the facial hair shaved off

 

[richw]

Every company I've worked for with a clean shave policy, have defined no hair below the bottom of the ear on the sides, nothing on chin. All but one permitted moustaches within their policy.

I once worked with a female with more facial hair then any of the men, yet the company wouldn't enforce the rule on her. So much for equality!

 

[MCW]

Just got me thinking as well, And sorry for semi high jacking the thread, but I also think its worthy of a mention...

What about long hair? Are companies ok with it being tied back? (Unless of course you are working with machinery etc) As I have hair down to below my shoulders.... Just wondered, I have spent the best part of two years growing it!

 

[83G/84D]

Every company I've worked for with a clean shave policy, have defined no hair below the bottom of the ear on the sides, nothing on chin. All but one permitted moustaches within their policy.

I once worked with a female with more facial hair then any of the men, yet the company wouldn't enforce the rule on her. So much for equality!

It may be a West Country thing (being from that area) but there are a noticeable number of women with facial hair round the chops area!

 

[LCC106]

Hi MCW. I would think that if your hair is tied back and neat and there is no issue surrounding machinery you should be ok. That said, you could always ask in the "Do you have any questions for us?" part of your interview...

pt_mad, I would recommend talking to the TOC about facial hair relating to religion if I were you. It shouldn't be an issue but may need explaining to someone who isn't aware of the religious aspect of it.

 

[RPM]

Policy at my TOC is that beards are permissable but should be "neatly trimmed" whatever that means. It isn't exactly enforced. I can think of people who have a whole range of beards from designer stubble to ZZ Top-esque growths.

 

[richw]

Policy at my TOC is that beards are permissable but should be "neatly trimmed" whatever that means. It isn't exactly enforced. I can think of people who have a whole range of beards from designer stubble to ZZ Top-esque growths.

Joaquin Phoenix at the Oscars is an example of what isnt neatly trimmed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...orting-scruffy-hair-beard-2008-flashback.html (apologies for the link, first that came up on a google search for "Joaquin Phoenix Oscars")

 

[TDK]

What are the TOCs' rules generally with regard to male facial hair/beards on the railways? Specifically station workers?



I read somewhere that many of the TOCs actually state in their policys that staff must be clean shaven. But how does this relate to people with religions which mean they have a beard?

Or is a smart trimmed beard allowed?

A lot of companies have a standard however they do not strictly adhere to it, I have never been pulled for stubble or not having a shave, uniform is different though, they do expect you wear it if it is providied. If you look a scruff then yes you will get pulled but if you look smart you won't.

 

[trentside]

My employer doesn't have a policy when it comes to facial hair but it's policy states that a smart personal appearance should be maintained. It requires people to have clean, neat hair with no extremes, and long hair tied back with an appropriate tie.

 

[Tubeboy]

I have stubble most of the time, a few days at worst. No one has ever pulled me up on it. I am washed, have a clean and ironed uniform. Obviously if my uniform was dirty, thats a different matter.

 

[BestWestern]

This is one thing that really gets my back up!

Many blokes, myself included, find that clean shaving causes significant skin irritation, with the inevitable resulting soreness and horrible redness and so on. There is absolutely no justification whatsoever for a company to demand that staff be 'clean shaven', and it falls on it's backside as soon as you present a note from your doctor stating that you suffer from the above problem. They are the obliged to waive said policy, unless they wish to be seen as behaving in a manner discriminatory towards somebody with a medical issue. In terms of personal appearance, it is perfectly possible to have 'designer stubble' or whatever and look presentable, in the same way that it is perfectly possible to be clean shaven and look like crap.

I've come across the dreaded 'beard or nothing' policy before, and it is laughable. At what point does one's facial hair become officially designated as a beard? Have the EU passed a law on such matters (quite probably :roll ? There cannot be an official company policy that states beards are allowed but stubble is not, unless said policy also contains the company's agreed definition of which is which. This would, presumably, need to state the exact length parameters within which one was expected to maintain one's facial growth, and a facility to check these parameters would be required should a breach be suspected. I would be deeply amused to find any policy anywhere that actually contains what it would need to stand up under proper scrutiny. I also find it deeply irritating in this enlightened age of equality, that a rule which brings with it considerable personal inconvenience (not everybody find a daily tussle with a shaver so easy), and which clearly only applies to male staff, is allowed to persist. Can you imagine a rule stating that female staff must have shaven legs, for example?!

Obviously you'll be wanting to play ball while you progress through any application process, but in the longer term rest assured that any 'facial hair requirement' can be pretty safely disregarded once you get going.

 

[TDK]

This is one thing that really gets my back up!

Many blokes, myself included, find that clean shaving causes significant skin irritation, with the inevitable resulting soreness and horrible redness and so on. There is absolutely no justification whatsoever for a company to demand that staff be 'clean shaven', and it falls on it's backside as soon as you present a note from your doctor stating that you suffer from the above problem. They are the obliged to waive said policy, unless they wish to be seen as behaving in a manner discriminatory towards somebody with a medical issue. In terms of personal appearance, it is perfectly possible to have 'designer stubble' or whatever and look presentable, in the same way that it is perfectly possible to be clean shaven and look like crap.

I've come across the dreaded 'beard or nothing' policy before, and it is laughable. At what point does one's facial hair become officially designated as a beard? Have the EU passed a law on such matters (quite probably :roll ? There cannot be an official company policy that states beards are allowed but stubble is not, unless said policy also contains the company's agreed definition of which is which. This would, presumably, need to state the exact length parameters within which one was expected to maintain one's facial growth, and a facility to check these parameters would be required should a breach be suspected. I would be deeply amused to find any policy anywhere that actually contains what it would need to stand up under proper scrutiny. I also find it deeply irritating in this enlightened age of equality, that a rule which brings with it considerable personal inconvenience (not everybody find a daily tussle with a shaver so easy), and which clearly only applies to male staff, is allowed to persist. Can you imagine a rule stating that female staff must have shaven legs, for example?!

Obviously you'll be wanting to play ball while you progress through any application process, but in the longer term rest assured that any 'facial hair requirement' can be pretty safely disregarded once you get going.

Here Bestwestern, you had the "It is not professional to carry a coffee cup to the cab" yet? Whatever next

 

[Shaggy]

My TOC has to my knowledge no such rule. Certainly not in "Control" where I work.

 

[Anon Mouse]

My TOC has to my knowledge no such rule. Certainly not in "Control" where I work.

and im guessing by your name you have long hair and plenty of designer stubble??

 

[Neil73]

Not got a lot to add to this but what an absolutely gripping thread. I honestly did not expect that facial hair (whether beard/stubble on a man/woman) caused so much unrest and tension in a customer focused job paying in excess of £40k a year. Opens my eyes I'll tell ya!

 

[pt_mad]

Not got a lot to add to this but what an absolutely gripping thread. I honestly did not expect that facial hair (whether beard/stubble on a man/woman) caused so much unrest and tension in a customer focused job paying in excess of £40k a year. Opens my eyes I'll tell ya!

Not all railway jobs pay that! These rules apply to cleaners as well.

 

[Neil73]

Not all railway jobs pay that! These rules apply to cleaners as well.

Sorry for generalising, thats a fair comment. I would find it interesting then how many people who have contributed to this post are indeed cleaners?

 

[Clip]

What are the TOCs' rules generally with regard to male facial hair/beards on the railways? Specifically station workers?



I read somewhere that many of the TOCs actually state in their policys that staff must be clean shaven. But how does this relate to people with religions which mean they have a beard?

Or is a smart trimmed beard allowed?

Maybe ask your line manager what is and isnt allowed inline with your TOCs policy. It'll vary between each TOC but not much.


And its not fair when I get grief from staff about growing my beard yet I tell em off for when they try and grow theirs

Sorry for generalising, thats a fair comment. I would find it interesting then how many people who have contributed to this post are indeed cleaners?

Are cleaners the only thing you could come up with?

I can tell you there are many MANY customer facing rolse that wont even come close to earning £40K upwards per year - probably not even in 2 years. Your generalisation of the wages that rail staff earn shows a high level of ignorance.

 

[Dolive22]

On shaving, I seem to have very bumpy skin or something because when I shave I always bleed. Any employer who had me in a customer facing role would be well advised to have me shave infrequently unless they want their customers greeted by my scabby neck.

On hair, what is their policy? I know the MOD (for enlisted and commissioned people) gets away with alot on the basis of uniformity and hair getting tangled in rifles (no really, that's the reason), but surely on civvy street all employers have to live by the Equality Act and it's predecessors?

 

[185]

Mine is one of the operators who do look employees up and down each day and often pester people about poor appearance, failure to shave, hair tidy and clean.

Always gives me a giggle when stood alongside (some of) Virgin's staff at Piccadilly, our staff are often the tidier of the two :P

 

[Mr395008]

I have stubble, I always have clean uniform (apart from when I come into contact with HST doors!). Pretty certain that my TOC has no real guidance on stubble/hair style.

 

[richw]

Mine is one of the operators who do look employees up and down each day and often pester people about poor appearance, failure to shave, hair tidy and clean.

Always gives me a giggle when stood alongside (some of) Virgin's staff at Piccadilly, our staff are often the tidier of the two :P

How much of the above stated standards comes to the standard of the line manager. I imagine some line managers can be strict on appearance policies and others turn a blind eye to it. This is how I've found appearance policies seem to be treated in all varieties of businesses.

 

[AlexS]

Reminds me of a conversation I had with my boss a few years ago.

Me: ''I'm off for a haircut, back later''
Boss: ''Not in work time?''
Another manager: ''It grows in work time though''
Boss: ''Not all of it''
Me: ''Only part of the haircut is in work time''

(the haircut was all of course in my own time, but I think he misunderstood!)

A certain notorious, now retired and much missed driver in my area actually took this to it's literal conclusion and buggered off on work time for a hair cut. Quite predictably for him, he got away with it. Having managed other such feats as abandoning a train outside a signalbox because they wouldn't give him a platform and his shift was over, and dictating his roster, to rosters, this was small fry.

 

[BestWestern]

Here Bestwestern, you had the "It is not professional to carry a coffee cup to the cab" yet? Whatever next

Nope, never had that one. Unshaven AND caffeine-deprived, the world would grind to a halt

 

[LCC106]

Are cleaners the only thing you could come up with?

To be fair Clip it as the OP who mentioned cleaners in the post before Neil73's.