Power cut hits ECML tonight: Video

[David Dunning]

More delays tonight on East Coast line. This time at York. A city wide power cut.
Here's some video

http://youtu.be/xFkKdQNRiRA

[youtube]xFkKdQNRiRA[/youtube]

 

[ainsworth74]

Surely the only reason they'd be held at the station is due to either the signalling centre or the signals losing power (or both)? I can't see why else there'd be a safety issue with trains running if OHLE power was available?

 

[David Dunning]

Well since that was made i discover that it was signalling issues. Which is kinda safety reasons. The video is shot for a wider audience more interested in the actual city centre power cut. Its uploaded for your interest.

 

[Rich McLean]

Also, further up in Northallerton, there have been power issues up here a well, lots of flickering

 

[Failed Unit]

We were held at Doncaster because of it, the odd thing is Leeds is also hit with a power failure. Is it the same signalling centre?

 

[1018509]

Seeing this video leads me to ask, when there is a power failure what keeps the signals on or do they default to a battery backed up red?

 

[David Dunning]

I thought they had an independent power source BUT the signalling centre which is in York and controls Leeds too is subject to blips and problems that need a PC reset or something like that . Over to an expert now ,

 

[matthewmacleod]

Seeing this video leads me to ask, when there is a power failure what keeps the signals on or do they default to a battery backed up red?

My understanding at least is that drivers treat dark signals as being at danger.

 

[ainsworth74]

Seeing this video leads me to ask, when there is a power failure what keeps the signals on or do they default to a battery backed up red?

I'm not sure if they have battery backups but if a driver sees a signal not showing any aspect they should assume that it's at danger and stop immediately (and probably contact the signaller to find out what's going on!).

 

[Zoidberg]

D'oh!

I took the title " Power cut hits ECML tonight Video" to mean that a power cut had affected the production of a video about the ECML tonight.

It does highlight just how much we rely on street lighting, for one thing.

 

[David Dunning]

D'oh!

I took the title " Power cut hits ECML tonight Video" to mean that a power cut had affected the production of a video about the ECML tonight.

It does highlight just how much we rely on street lighting, for one thing.

Funny that .

It was actually quite strange. I thought you'd enjoy having a look at a wider problem that affected the railway. Was anyone on the station when the lights went out cos when i looked from my window at one point it apeared to be in pitch darkness for a moment.

 

[Gareth]

I must say, the emergency lights at York are pretty good. I see red signals too, so also I'm curious about the power source they're recieving.

 

[craigwilson]

I'm not sure if they have battery backups but if a driver sees a signal not showing any aspect they should assume that it's at danger and stop immediately (and probably contact the signaller to find out what's going on!).

This is what happened when I was at Sandwich station last night - the signals in both directions went dark, and as the Ramsgate-bound signal protects three level crossings, there was no going anywhere till it was fixed!

 

[222001]

Seeing this video leads me to ask, when there is a power failure what keeps the signals on or do they default to a battery backed up red?

Signals and signalling centres should have backup power supplies. For example when there was a massive power cut at Derby all trains still ran as normal. If they have no connection to the signalling centre it is my understanding they will revert to red.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

There are emergency gennies available and can be fired up relatively quickly. In most cases if it is the signal control that has gone down then signal will revert to red by default, otherwise an unlit aspect of any sort, even distants are treated as being at danger. The power failure affected routes between Doncaster, Northallerton and Morley with some TPE and east coast trains - many already delayed by a broken down train earlier requiring the thunderbird - running over 2 hours late

 

[Tomnick]

even distants are treated as being at danger.

I know it's not going to make much difference when everything's up the wall anyway, but a 'dark' (or otherwise not properly shown) distant signal should be treated as displaying its most restrictive aspect, i.e. Caution not Danger.

 

[sprinterguy]

We were held at Doncaster because of it, the odd thing is Leeds is also hit with a power failure. Is it the same signalling centre?

Yes, lines in the Leeds area are controlled from York signalling centre, so were equally affected by the York power cut.

 

[142094]

We were held at Doncaster because of it, the odd thing is Leeds is also hit with a power failure. Is it the same signalling centre?

Leeds used to be at situated above Leeds station, but is now controlled from the Leeds desk at York. York also controls the overhead supply for everywhere up as far as Newcastle I believe, although not too sure of the whole extent of their control.

 

[Ploughman]

York signalling boundary on Leeds NW is beyond Skipton just short of Hellifield.

 

[YorkshireBear]

York signalling boundary on Leeds NW is beyond Skipton just short of Hellifield.

Yep they definitely control mainline movements off the KWVR.

 

[Ploughman]

Yep they definitely control mainline movements off the KWVR.

I know, as I installed the IBJs under the station bridge at Keighley and arranged the station roof bonding out back in 1994 or so.

 

[Mechy]

All signalling systems are battery backed and earth-free. If the power fails the signalling will revert to working by battery; from memory I think it can work in this way for up to 10 hours before it cannot be relied upon. The problem was probably within York IECC where the loss of power probably affected the control systems.

 

[Marklund]

All signalling systems are battery backed

Nope.

There are many, many ways of standby signalling supply.

The basic being the battery backup, prevalent in traditional AB signalling areas.

Power Signal Boxes, (as well as some traditional boxes) often have a diesel generator which will kick in after the mains power has been off for so many seconds.

Some have UPS's to hold up the supply until the generators kick in, so don't have the problem of blips putting signals back. If there's a 650v supply, chances are there are no batteries, so if the power cable goes down, signals go blank.

Some PSB's also use a supply from the OHLE as their back up supply.

UPSs are also a feature of standby supplies for TPWS installs.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I take it that there aren't any Emergency Signalling Panels or Slave panels that can control limited movements if York (or communication to York) fails?

I think they were provided at strategic places in the old BR Western region (Weston Super Mare for example).

Or do those panels exist but there was nobody able and available to operate them?