Romford - Upminster - Why the extra minute?

[Essexman]

For as long as I can remember (back to the 1960s) every train has been timetabled to take 8 minutes between Romford & Upminster, in both directions

Now the latest timetable has increased the journey to 9 minutes for every train. The extra minute is added to the second part of the journey, ie. between Emerson and Upminster Upminster bound and between Emerson Park and Romford Romford bound.

Can anyone tell me why?

 

[306024]

All in the name of right time performance statistics. With today's driving standards, and the use of 317's on the branch, if you took a stopwatch to the line you'd fine it near impossible to do in 8 minutes. On a slippery day nearer 10 minutes isn't unknown.

Of course the old DMU's used to do it easily in 8 minutes, but such is progress.

 

[Essexman]

The DMUs' used to be able to do it in just under the eight minutes. I haven't timed the current trains but assumed that electric units had greater acceleration so could be quicker, although the very slow approaches to Romford & Upminster (is this for TPWS) add time. The line limit is 30mph but I can't recall if DMU's went faster.

 

[dk1]

The DMUs' used to be able to do it in just under the eight minutes. I haven't timed the current trains but assumed that electric units had greater acceleration so could be quicker, although the very slow approaches to Romford & Upminster (is this for TPWS) add time. The line limit is 30mph but I can't recall if DMU's went faster.

I can assure you that a certain now retired driver did the journey in far less than 8 minutes. His tales included DMUs hitting the stops on a regular basis, speeding always & most shocking of all, not bothering to change ends at Upminster so propelling the unit back to Romford Definatley no OTMR, ahh those where the days!!

 

[Essexman]

This wouldn't be the driver who drove the final DMU on the line would it?

 

[dk1]

This wouldn't be the driver who drove the final DMU on the line would it?

Not sure on that one mate.

 

[306024]

I can assure you that a certain now retired driver did the journey in far less than 8 minutes. His tales included DMUs hitting the stops on a regular basis, speeding always & most shocking of all, not bothering to change ends at Upminster so propelling the unit back to Romford Definatley no OTMR, ahh those where the days!!

That's what I really meant when I said 'today's driving standards'

I remember overtaking an eastbound district line train on the approach to Upminster once, but as for hitting the stops, I only once had to get the bus home when the train tried to forge a new route towards Cranham

 

[Essexman]

An extension to Cranham would be very useful if you could push the buffers back one day!

Did the 30mph line limit apply in DMU times? I'm sure they went faster but wonder if it was official.

As youngsters we were often invited to travel in the DMU cab too.

 

[306024]

The DMUs' used to be able to do it in just under the eight minutes. I haven't timed the current trains but assumed that electric units had greater acceleration so could be quicker, although the very slow approaches to Romford & Upminster (is this for TPWS) add time. The line limit is 30mph but I can't recall if DMU's went faster.

To the best of my knowledge (back to the 70's) the line speed has always been 30. Of course you used to be able to see the speedo in the rear cab of the DMU on the way to Upminster, and it was surprising how inaccurate they could be

With or without TPWS, you won't find drivers rushing up to buffer stops like they used to. On the subject of acceleration, there are two dead sections in the OHL leaving Romford for bridge clearance - so in fact a DMU would accelerate better !

Still at least the gas lamps at Emerson Park were replaced (was that before or after someone burnt the ticket office down ? !!)

 

[northwichcat]

How are passenger numbers fairing?

I've heard from a RUG that Northern Rail will be adding a couple of extra minutes to some services from next May because they have found that the dwell times are unrealistic given the number of passengers squeezing in and out of 2 car trains on their services, so some stations which have 30 second dwell times will get 1 minute dwell times.

 

[Essexman]

How are passenger numbers fairing?

I've heard from a RUG that Northern Rail will be adding a couple of extra minutes to some services from next May because they have found that the dwell times are unrealistic given the number of passengers squeezing in and out of 2 car trains on their services, so some stations which have 30 second dwell times will get 1 minute dwell times.

Numbers are reasonable (especially in peak) but with only one intermediate station, several minutes turn round and four car trains I don't think dwell times are an issue.

 

[W-on-Sea]

I can assure you that a certain now retired driver did the journey in far less than 8 minutes. His tales included DMUs hitting the stops on a regular basis, speeding always & most shocking of all, not bothering to change ends at Upminster so propelling the unit back to Romford Definatley no OTMR, ahh those where the days!!

Ha! Having gone to school in Upminster, I see why now the line was referred to back in the day as the "push-pull"!

 

[Essexman]

I timed the train today:

Upminster – Emerson Park

Run 1 4min 3sec
Run 2 4min 2sec

Emerson Park – Upminster

Run 1 3min 46sec
Run 2 3min 44sec

Emerson Park – Romford

Run 1 4min 55sec

Romford – Emerson Park

Run 1 4min 28sec

Total including Emerson Park stop (which were 30 & 35 seconds):

Upminster – Romford 9min 28sec
Romford – Upminster 8min 47sec


Romford – Emerson Park is 2 miles
Emerson Park – Upminster is 1½ miles

Surprisingly it was slower from Upminster – Emerson Park than vice versa, despite the slow approach to Upminster.
With its very slow approach it was slower into Romford from Emerson Park than the return.

So 9 minutes seems a more realistic schedule than 8 minutes. Trains must have been arriving late for some years.

As said above, in DMU days it was done in under 8 minutes. Progress?

 

[SprinterMan]

Just out of interest, what is this line booked for: 315, 317 or 321?
I have seen all 3 work it before, and it would seem most suited to a 315, although recently it seems to be a 317 duty. Is very frustrating when you are shooting up the GEML on a knackered 321 (i.e. all of them aside from the ones with the black seats) when you see a lovely 317/6 parked in the bay at Romford.

Adam

 

[306024]

On paper it is booked for a class 317/6 but the diagram starts and finishes at Ilford Car Sheds each day so it all depends on what is available. It is planned to be a 317/6 because they have less seats - seating capacity is not an issue on this line.

Drivers I've spoken to prefer 315's, but since the introduction of additional GE peak Metro trains a while back the 315 that used to be diagrammed, plus one from West Anglia, were put together to form the 8 car 315 required. However it does maintain Ilford drivers 317 traction knowledge for when the Witham trial trips happen to be 317's.

I assume Essexman that you had a 317 for your timings ?

 

[Essexman]

Yes it was a 317 - one with first class in the middle. Usually we have first class at the Upminster end.
It's nice to have a more comfortable train on our little branch than many of those that do longer journeys on the main line.

 

[30909]

An extension to Cranham would be very useful if you could push the buffers back one day!

Did the 30mph line limit apply in DMU times? I'm sure they went faster but wonder if it was official.

As youngsters we were often invited to travel in the DMU cab too.

I remember the DMUs well and spent several consecutive days in autumn 1957, when the bay at Upminster had not long opened, going to from Upminster to cop the Britannia’s, B1’s and others on the GEM.
After about 3 days the DMU driver recognised me, always looking over his shoulder from the front saloon, where all new paint and varnish and smelling still of fresh paint and linoleum; he opened the communicating door asked me into the cab and said “you already know what to do sit here and take her through to Upminster!” Terrific!! As I just had my tenth birthday holding down the controller was quite an effort, I stopped short at Emerson Park and had to dump the brake at Upminster to avoid hitting the blocks, on the second trip I was much smoother!