Glasgow in May - Expert advice

[big_dirt]

My wife, two year old daughter and I will be heading to a wedding in Paisley on 4th May. Our plan is to get the train up and as tickets are not available yet, I presume we will be able to buy at the right time to minimise the price.

Ideally we'd like to go on the Friday 3rd daytime and home again on Sunday 5th daytime but if there is a big price difference from one day to the next then we might make another day of it and put the saving toward hotel room.

Our local station is Tulse Hill so if we can get a cheap ticket to cover the whole journey that will be great but not necessary. Similar with going in to Glasgow instead of Paisley Gilmour St or similar.

So I guess my key questions are:

• When is the best time to buy
• What is the least expensive route / split option
• Is it possible to get a good First Class Advance, can we bring a 2 year old in to FC?
• The Monday is a bank holiday, will we be tortured by replacement buses on the Sunday?
• Is it cheaper / easier to travel on Thursday / Monday instead of Friday / Sunday

Thanks in advance.

 

[paul1609]

My wife, two year old daughter and I will be heading to a wedding in Paisley on 4th May. Our plan is to get the train up and as tickets are not available yet, I presume we will be able to buy at the right time to minimise the price.

Ideally we'd like to go on the Friday 3rd daytime and home again on Sunday 5th daytime but if there is a big price difference from one day to the next then we might make another day of it and put the saving toward hotel room.

Our local station is Tulse Hill so if we can get a cheap ticket to cover the whole journey that will be great but not necessary. Similar with going in to Glasgow instead of Paisley Gilmour St or similar.

So I guess my key questions are:

• When is the best time to buy
• What is the least expensive route / split option
• Is it possible to get a good First Class Advance, can we bring a 2 year old in to FC?
• The Monday is a bank holiday, will we be tortured by replacement buses on the Sunday?
• Is it cheaper / easier to travel on Thursday / Monday instead of Friday / Sunday

Thanks in advance.

By far the best way to do this will be to fly BA from Gatwick and then get a taxi to your destination.

 

[big_dirt]

That is looking like £350 for the flights alone from either Gatwick or London City and with check in times and travelling to the airport, flight time, waiting for baggage etc, I'd imagine there wouldn't be much time advantage.

Plus flying short haul is generally miserable.

 

[30907]

• When is the best time to buy
• Is it possible to get a good First Class Advance, can we bring a 2 year old in to FC?

Thanks in advance.

I assume you have a Family and Friends railcard, if not, get one, because your toddler can then have a seat to him/herself (useful for a nap!), as well as saving money. Found that most useful, many years ago...

Best time is as soon as reservation/tickets for the return journey are released (you might need to have a web-only off-peak fare on a Sunday on the West Coast, so worth waiting the 48 hours)

Looking as far ahead as is bookable (and only on Euston-Glasgow because I'm no split-ticketing expert), I think a First Advance isn't going to be cheap! There's nothing to stop you taking a 2yo in though, but the Quiet Coach might not be appropriate...

 

[johnnychips]

That is looking like £350 for the flights alone from either Gatwick or London City and with check in times and travelling to the airport, flight time, waiting for baggage etc, I'd imagine there wouldn't be much time advantage.

Plus flying short haul is generally miserable.

£265 Easyjet at sensible times. That's before you start adding suitcase supplements etc. BA came in at £392 (at sensible times) all in.

As OP says, Advanced fares not available for selected dates yet. On Virgin on a Fri and Sun at the end of March (week before Easter) I can find Tulse Hill - Paisley GS and back using F and F card for £390 (first, Advance tickets) and £261 (standard, off-peak return) - so I suppose if you get in as soon as the advanced tickets are available, this could be a lot less, but I'm sure there's someone on here who knows how low Virgin advances go.

Time is 6-6.5 hours with three changes. I think I'd take the plane myself.

 

[paul1609]

That is looking like £350 for the flights alone from either Gatwick or London City and with check in times and travelling to the airport, flight time, waiting for baggage etc, I'd imagine there wouldn't be much time advantage.

Plus flying short haul is generally miserable.

Sorry but youre wrong! Check in will be at home on line or at worse at a self service machine. Aim to get to Gatwick an hour before taKe off.
You will have at least 30minutes shopping before getting to the gate. on this basis total journey time by air to Paisley will be less than half that by rail travelling on an advance ticket.
Do you really want to be travelling 8 hours with a child?
BA is okay on short flights



``

 

[extendedpaul]

Can a friends and family railcard be used to purchase first class advance tickets ?

Last summer I was definitely told not eligible - was I misinformed ?

 

[calc7]

Can a friends and family railcard be used to purchase first class advance tickets ?

Last summer I was definitely told not eligible - was I misinformed ?

Don't worry - F&F can't be used on First Class tickets.

 

[Goatboy]

The best thing to do is drive, rail will be massively more expensive for this trip.

 

[cuccir]

The plane and a car (or car hire) are definitely worth looking at. However if you book Advance fares and use a Friends and Family Railcard (I'm presuming that this is allowed with a 2 year old?) then you can get good value.

• When is the best time to buy
• What is the least expensive route / split option
• Is it possible to get a good First Class Advance, can we bring a 2 year old in to FC?
• The Monday is a bank holiday, will we be tortured by replacement buses on the Sunday?
• Is it cheaper / easier to travel on Thursday / Monday instead of Friday / Sunday

.

• If you're happy being tied to a specific train, the answer is when the tickets become available! That's usually 12 weeks in advance but they can be held back due to uncertainties about engineering work. This page is updated as tickets become availble
• It's very difficult to know the least expensive (as there are so many alternatives). However you can get good value through Advance fares from Tulse Hill to Paisley. By searcing from 'London' and paying separately to get to Euston/Kings Cross, you'll find more options. Advance fares from London to Paisley on East Coast (search for 'via Newcastle') are a little cheaper, particularly with the online 10% discount.
• For first class, East Coast is again cheaper than Virgin (West Coast), but will take longer.
• Engineering work for May is not yet annoucned. There is engineering on the West Coast Mainline over Easter.
• If you book when fares become available, then you'll be OK travelling Friday/Sunday. Consider travelling mid-morning Friday and as early as you are willing to on Sunday to avoid the crowds

.

It's hard to get an idea of costs due to West Coast engineering over Easter (a comparable weekend) meaning that not so many tickets are available. However you can do it for £150 return up the East Coast; based on midweek prices and current one way fares available, I'd expect to pay £160-£220 on the West Coast.

 

[extendedpaul]

Don't worry - F&F can't be used on First Class tickets.

That's what I thought but some of the advice being given to the OP is overlooking that restriction.

 

[calc7]

That's what I thought but some of the advice being given to the OP is overlooking that restriction.

Indeed - jonnychips' has incorrectly suggested that it would discount Advance First tickets.

In any instance, for the Sunday journey, cheaper would be to buy Standard Advance tickets and use the (fantastic value for Glasgow to London) Weekend First upgrade - £15 per adult and £5 per child.

 

[johnnychips]

Indeed - jonnychips' has incorrectly suggested that it would discount Advance First tickets.

In any instance, for the Sunday journey, cheaper would be to buy Standard Advance tickets and use the (fantastic value for Glasgow to London) Weekend First upgrade - £15 per adult and £5 per child.

It's just what the booking engine came up with. Perhaps it 'thought', "well F and F doesn't apply to First Class, but here's the cheapest I can offer anyway". Would a 2-year old have to sit on a parent's knee?

 

[ainsworth74]

Would a 2-year old have to sit on a parent's knee?

If the seat is required by a fare paying passenger then yes. To get technical the NRCoC say this:

Up to two children under five years of age may travel free of charge with a passenger holding a ticket or other authority to travel. However, children under five years of age who are travelling free may only occupy a seat which is not required by a passenger holding a ticket or appropriate authority to travel.

I'm not actually sure what happens if you had more than two children under five. Perhaps one would have to have a child rate fare?

 

[johnnychips]

On the Gatwick-Glasgow services by Easyjet and BA, a 2-year old pays the same as an adult, so would be allocated a seat. Though knowing 2-year olds they would probably spend the flight sat on their parent's knee/grabbing their hair/crawling under the seats anyway.

I expect that if the OP decides to take the train, the chances of there being a vacant seat unrequired by other passengers next to them increase if they travel first class.

 

[Lad Brookes]

If you don't mind a very early start, the 05:39 from Euston typically has Advance tickets available at a very reasonable price, even on a Friday.
I'm quite a regular traveller on this service from Watford Junction.

 

[big_dirt]

Thanks a lot everyone. My two year old daughter will actually be 3 by the time it comes to travelling. I think some colouring in pencils, a picnic, ipad, a few books will keep her occupied for the journey, as well as a walk up and down the train.

Good tip on the friends and family railcard. She will get a seat and taking a look at tickets at present, it seems to save around £30, the cost of the railcard is on special at £20 at present and the daughter will get a seat to herself.

Looking at tickets over the Easter weekend, if I choose from Tulse Hill to Paisley it works out massively more expensive than doing a straight London to Glasgow ticket.

Does anyone understand why on the ticket "Mixing Deck" there always seems to be a range of fares presented where the lowest is never available?

The Kings Cross, East Coast idea is a good one, especially as there is a direct train from Tulse Hill to St Pancras, although Euston is only a short stroll.

 

[extendedpaul]

if I choose from Tulse Hill to Paisley it works out massively more expensive than doing a straight London to Glasgow ticket.

Interesting point that. My journeys start from Kent and usually an advance ticket is cheaper for the complete journey. However sometimes the through fare is much more expensive and I can save money by booking from the London terminus with a separate return to get me there. Why is that ?

 

[cuccir]

The Kings Cross, East Coast idea is a good one, especially as there is a direct train from Tulse Hill to St Pancras, although Euston is only a short stroll.

Just to note that if you do chose East Coast, you'd benefit with a 33% small group discount (automatically applied via the East Coast website). It's still cheaper with the F&F Railcard, but the difference is much smaller - so if you plan to use East Coast it would only be worthwhile to get the Railcard if you're looking to use it again.

 

[matthewmacleod]

Virgin advances from EUS to GLC can be pretty cheap, starting from £21 standard and £51 first class. Tickets to Euston/Paisley are under a fiver - you could do the whole trip for under £150 return, or under £300 first class.

I'd strongly advise going up the WCML - it's a good 90 minutes quicker than going East Coast.

 

[big_dirt]

Yeah, I am definitely getting that impression Matthew.

What I am really trying to work out when the cheapest time to get the tickets is. It would appear that tickets are more expensive when released, then come down in price, then go back up again.

And another question, is it cheaper to buy a ticket from Virgin directly if my entire journey is with them?

Finally, can I buy a sail rail ticket from London to Belfast and break the journey at Glasgow?

 

[matthewmacleod]

Yeah, I am definitely getting that impression Matthew.

What I am really trying to work out when the cheapest time to get the tickets is. It would appear that tickets are more expensive when released, then come down in price, then go back up again.

And another question, is it cheaper to buy a ticket from Virgin directly if my entire journey is with them?

Finally, can I buy a sail rail ticket from London to Belfast and break the journey at Glasgow?

Kind of - rail tickets can be booked quite far in advance, but "Advance" tickets (which are a separate type of ticket, not just those bought in advance!) are released twelve weeks in advance. So that's your time to check!

Some train operating companies offer an specific online discount for their own services, but as far as I'm aware Virgin does not - so you can purchase these from any provider for the same price. Stay clear of third-part sites like The Trainline though - they charge additional booking fees.

Someone more knowledgeable that me will have to let you know about SailRail, but I expect your journey can be broken.

 

[tony_mac]

Kind of - rail tickets can be booked quite far in advance, but "Advance" tickets (which are a separate type of ticket, not just those bought in advance!) are released twelve weeks in advance. So that's your time to check!

See the booking horizons page to get an idea of the dates that are available
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/booking_horizons.html

 

[AlterEgo]

Someone more knowledgeable that me will have to let you know about SailRail, but I expect your journey can be broken.

You cannot break your journey with SailRail.

They've been issued as "Sailrail Advance" for a while and have compulsory reservations.

 

[MadCommuter]

IIRC the works at Newton junction (just south of Glasgow Central) to connect the new chord to the down WCML are being down over the May bank holiday. I've no idea if the works are on programme or what disruption this may cause, if any.

You might get some help using @newtoncapacity on Twitter.

 

[Paule23]

I regularly travel to and from Glasgow by train, even for journeys that take longer than the equivalent flight (including check in, travel to and from airport etc) so can heartily recommend rail over the flight toons being quoted as it is often much more relaxing. You don't have to queue to check in ,queue for Security, queue to get on the flight, fight for a seat etc.

You can take a 2 year old into First Class, and even better as they are under 5 they do not have to pay (if accompanied by a fare paying adult). If you can afford it, I recommend first class, much more comfortable and as has been pointed out, more space and seat availability. Weekend first upgrades are a cheap option you don't get the same food/drink service however in my opinion the upgrade cost for space and comfort is worth it. Travel on Sunday is not likely to be a rail replacement bus, however the trains are usually less frequent and take longer. I usually travel down on a Saturday to gets the cheap upgrade and back on a Monday. I'm not sure what would be best for you, however travelling on a Sunday should still be ok.

Cheapest fares are available,12 weeks in advance. Some train websites (I.e. east Coast) allow you to register your travel dates and they will advise when seats are released for sale to give you the best chance of buying a cheap fare. (Note you can buy tickets for all train companies through another operators site, for example on the East Coast site you can but a Virgin ticket)

Hope that helps.

 

[reb0118]

Have you thought about the Caledonian Sleeper ? Just a though but another option.

 

[Goatboy]

You cannot break your journey with SailRail.

They've been issued as "Sailrail Advance" for a while and have compulsory reservations.

It's not issued as a Sailrail Advance, thats just for the Dublin tickets via Holyhead. It is actually issued as a conventional Anytime Return but with a restriction code that prohibits break of journey. An add way of doing it, but there we go.

 

[jkdd77]

It's not issued as a Sailrail Advance, thats just for the Dublin tickets via Holyhead. It is actually issued as a conventional Anytime Return but with a restriction code that prohibits break of journey. An add way of doing it, but there we go.

It does raise an interesting question about whether BoJ can legitimately be barred on 'Anytime' tickets, in view of the general ticket conditions providing that it is always permitted on Anytime tickets.

If the answer is "yes", then what is there, in principle to stop TOCs from barring it on all Anytime Singles and Returns? I suppose that, if challenged, it would be easy enough to turn the (unregulated) Sailrail ticket into a '8A' SVR, or even withdraw it altogether.

 

[Lad Brookes]

The Belfast Sailrail hasn't always been an Anytime- I'm sure it used to be available as a Irish High Saver and Irish Low Saver.