Caledonian Sleeper

[clc]

THE Caledonian Sleeper is to be radically overhauled to create a luxury train service that is “emblematic of Scotland..

The new service – to be boosted by £100 million of investment pledged by the Scottish and UK governments – could also include luxury-class cabins to attract well-heeled tourists heading on sporting holidays. Other new features likely to be considered by potential operators include showers, TVs, gourmet dining and wifi access...

"We will let a separate 15-year franchise and this, coupled with over £100m of investment, is intended to give this historic service the 21st-century future it deserves.”

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/caledonian-sleeper-train-will-be-scotland-on-wheels-1-2747896

 

[shinkansen1966]

THE Caledonian Sleeper is to be radically overhauled to create a luxury train service that is “emblematic of Scotland..

The new service – to be boosted by £100 million of investment pledged by the Scottish and UK governments – could also include luxury-class cabins to attract well-heeled tourists heading on sporting holidays. Other new features likely to be considered by potential operators include showers, TVs, gourmet dining and wifi access...

"We will let a separate 15-year franchise and this, coupled with over £100m of investment, is intended to give this historic service the 21st-century future it deserves.”

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/caledonian-sleeper-train-will-be-scotland-on-wheels-1-2747896

Wishful thinking.

Expect the winning franchise to offer WiFi, 'enhanced' breakfast for first class passengers, pay as you go telly in some cabins and posher buffet food.

 

[wintonian]

Wishful thinking.

Expect the winning franchise to offer WiFi, 'enhanced' breakfast for first class passengers, pay as you go telly in some cabins and posher buffet food.

I just hope they offer working plug sockets. :-x

 

[12CSVT]

No doubt the fares will rocket if this happens.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I just hope they offer working plug sockets. :-x

The shaver sockets in the cabins usually work. Carrying a 2 pin euro adaptor or euro 2 pin to figure 8 lead will let you charge a phone or laptop if the lounge sockets are on the blink.

 

[Wath Yard]

Caledonian Sleeper train will be ‘Scotland on wheels’

Cold and bumpy?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Cold and bumpy?

... and - very importantly - not dry either.

 

[Yew]

The shaver sockets in the cabins usually work. Carrying a 2 pin euro adaptor or euro 2 pin to figure 8 lead will let you charge a phone or laptop if the lounge sockets are on the blink.

If you have a small surge protector available, thats also useful.


I hope the refurb will see a good interior refurbishment ( Ideally that would try to make the small cabins look spacious and modern, not just plastering tartan everywhere) some more options for breakfast, plug sockets and 4G wifi (no need for the VOLO TV stuff FGW have.) If possible, maybe curtains on the berth would be good, add some priviacy if you are sharing with a stranger.

I'm looking forward to the results though.

 

[route:oxford]

Ok, I really like the Sleepers and wish them well...

But

£100,000,000 updates?

15 Year franchise, 6 nights a week, 4 services per night. Isn't that a £5000 basic subsidy per train? Before the actual operating subsidy...

Shouldn't there be protests in the streets of Edinburgh about "Toffs enjoying a luxury nights sleep at the taxpayers expense"?

How many 7 car units could be bought by Transport Scotland to improve primary daytime tourist & domestic rolling stock in Scotland for the same amount?

 

[jopsuk]

Current formation capacity, each half-train- any corrections to this?
1st class: 1 SLE + 1 SLEP- 25 1st class beds
1 SLE, 1 SLED and 2 SLEP- 98 (?) Standard class beds
1 Seated Sleeper carriage: 30 or so seats?
Total capacity ~155? So full train ~310? Subsidy of about £16/per passenger if it ran at capacity

 

[CardiffKid]

Subsidy of about £16/per passenger if it ran at capacity

Anyone know any passenger figures? I'd be intrigued to know how many people use this service.

 

[Roverman]

Prices are already crazy for the sleeper. I've also noticed a sharp drop in availability of Bargain Berths since November. They need to be cheaper than the planes if they have any hope of being used.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Prices are already crazy for the sleeper. I've also noticed a sharp drop in availability of Bargain Berths since November. They need to be cheaper than the planes if they have any hope of being used.

Well I always like to remember that it includes a night's accommodation in the price, and I don't have to pay extra at each end to get to and from the station from the city centres. I consider it good value, especially when booked in advance.

If you want cheap, there's always the coach services.

 

[shinkansen1966]

£100,000,000 updates?

15 Year franchise, 6 nights a week, 4 services per night. Isn't that a £5000 basic subsidy per train? Before the actual operating subsidy...
?

Any new rolling stock might in service for 30 years, so that might be nearer £2,500 per train. Then you have to add repairs, staffing, energy consumption, Network Rail trackage charges and locomotive hire.

Sleepers are expensive and politically sensitive. Politicians use them.

 

[Roverman]

They can afford them!

 

[EltonRoad]

Anyone know any passenger figures? I'd be intrigued to know how many people use this service.

The article says 270k passengers per year.

 

[jopsuk]

that works out as about 216 per night, from a capacity of 1240 ish.

 

[ainsworth74]

Ok, I really like the Sleepers and wish them well...

So do I but I can't help but feel that splitting the Scottish Sleepers into a separate franchise could end up being quite dangerous for their future. Mostly because it will expose, totally, the actual costs that the Sleepers rack up. Come fifteen years or so after the refurb when new vehicles are going to be required it's going to be hard to make a case if the figures show that they're haemorrhaging money.

As for this refurb, I doubt it will be anything as luxurious as that. Personally I'd suggest that a good refurbishment would be bringing them up to the standard of the Night Riviera but including wi-fi and plug sockets. I'd also propose making it standard class throughout with solo berths for single travellers and twins available for people travelling together (you could even make sharing a twin with a stranger the bargain berth type ticket).

 

[clc]

Anyone know any passenger figures? I'd be intrigued to know how many people use this service.

274,000 passengers in the 2010/11 financial year, a 31% increase on five years earlier.

 

[sprinterguy]

that works out as about 216 per night, from a capacity of 1240 ish.

There is no more than a maximum of around 490 (EDIT: Got overzealous with my multiplication, that should actually be 245) berths available each night out of that total, though: I have no way of knowing, but I don't envisage that the seated accommodation experiences particularly high rates of usage. I would think that more of this spare capacity can be found on the Lowland sleeper portions, based on the fact that cheaper fares are often more readily available on any given day and for a much longer period of time thanks to more berths being available on these services (Compared to the Highland portion that is shared between Fort William and whichever it is out of Aberdeen or Inverness).

 

[clc]

TS has published a Prior Information Notice. It says the service costs £25m per year to run and takes in £20m in revenue:
http://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=DEC132362

 

[PaxVobiscum]

that works out as about 216 per night, from a capacity of 1240 ish.

????

274,000/312 (6 nights a week) = 878 average total over 4 trains (2 up 2 down)

But each train does not have a 1240ish capacity.

 

[CardiffKid]

Politicians use them.

That's absolute c***, a few MPs will use it, but dragging that into the argument is tosh and its not as though the handful and I mean handful will be in a position to vote on it.

Don't get me wrong he refurbishment plans seem great, but where is the money coming from and how is it going to be financially beneficial.

 

[Holly]

So do I but I can't help but feel that splitting the Scottish Sleepers into a separate franchise could end up being quite dangerous for their future. ...

They could go the other way and franchise individual coaches.

There is probably a case for a super deluxe coach for zillionaires with truly astronomical prices. After all, that is the direction the world is going - the rich get richer the poor get poorer.

 

[RichmondCommu]

It's a pity that our loading gauge isn't big enough to accomodate Couchettes. They are a very popular budget option on the Continent and much more comfortable than the overnight Megabus. At the right price ie cheap as chips I think they'd sell well.

 

[sprinterguy]

????

274,000/312 (6 nights a week) = 878 average total over 4 trains (2 up 2 down)

But each train does not have a 1240ish capacity.

The figure of 216 is the average loading on each of the four individual trains each night. And actually, I've got my figure (490) for the number of berths per train wrong: It should be half of that, around 245. That's actually a very good average loading!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Does the average loading figure of 216 per train include the seated lot, or just the sleeping lot?

Given the £20m revenue vs £25m costs, you obviously need to either get 25% more passengers on each train ( which equates to 270 per train; a bit of a problem against 245 berths! ) or the average fare needs to rise by 25% for the service to break even.

I suspect it'll end up in the middle somewhere... an average rise of around 10% to 15% and the capacity fills up more if demand continues to rise at the same rate it has been.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....(Compared to the Highland portion that is shared between Fort William and whichever it is out of Aberdeen or Inverness).

The Fort William sleeper portion splits from the same train as both the Aberdeen and Inverness portions.

 

[CallySleeper]

This all sounds very nice but yes probably wishful thinking.

- I can't work out whether the MkIIIs are capable of such a refurbishment, or even how long they have left, and thus whether we're talking about new stock

- Could investing in >2 cars for the West Highland service pay off? Or would that warrant a third train (additional costs)

- More competitive prices will make it a more "compelling experience". But higher fares? Probably more likely (unfortunately.) Especially if either or both of the above two options are actually done.

- Start of a network - Edinburgh/Glasgow to Birmingham/Bristol/Cardiff or beyond?! Anyone remember the overnight Inverness - Glasgow (& Edinburgh?) train?!

 

[aylesbury]

Whatever happens the MK3,s will need a lot of remedial work around toilet areas due to corrosion,but they are surprisingly robust.New coaches will be needed but a rethink on the interiors will have to take place and will be a difficult job to accomplish.If the beds are let as a seperate franchise there is a chance that new ideas will happen ,but if stays with Scotrail I doubt if much will happen .The main thrust of a new franchise will be services in Scotland and if Mr Salmon wants a flagship service to England he is going have to use his government money to provide it.