Big Stations with no Ticket Barriers

[Rick1984]

What the heck ticket barriers at airports all about? You just have one huge queue behind the luggage gate!

 

[island]

At [stn]GTW[/stn] almost all of the gates are wide gates.

 

[Rick1984]

Gatwick has a very poor setup though as to get to some of the platforms involves a long walk to the lifts and then you have to leave your trolley. Not good with four bags of heavy luggage between two people.

 

[p123]

Gatwick has a very poor setup though as to get to some of the platforms involves a long walk to the lifts and then you have to leave your trolley. Not good with four bags of heavy luggage between two people.

Long walk? You'll have no walk if you give in after getting lost in the... maze queue! lol!

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/GTW/objectvalues/1989-0000023.html

 

[jon0844]

Don't they mean an a-mazing queue?! As in you'll be amazed at how long the queue is because it takes tourists two hours to explain where they're going.

 

[Wolfie]

Waterloo East perversely has no barriers at all if you exit via Waterloo itself, but DOES have barriers if you exit directly onto the street. Bizarre.

If they had installed the barriers just a few feet away from where they are, they would have covered both routes.

It does now! They were put in at the same time as the Waterloo mezanine work.

Interestingly the Waterloo and City line still does not - looking at the entrance there are probably few if any viable (for which read safe) places they could be put.

 

[Max]

Discussion on Break of Journey at York can now be found here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=77931

 

[tractakid]

Is this an appropriate thread to discuss the opposite? The least used station that is barriered?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Huddersfield has no barriers, other than the human checks that seemed to have been stepped up recently based on my visit this afternoon. I think there's still plans to install gates in the recently extended concourse, but I'm not sure of the details. Maybe someone else on here knows more...

 

[telstarbox]

Is this an appropriate thread to discuss the opposite? The least used station that is barriered?

Hazel Grove?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

York has no barriers, not because the TOC concerned doesn't want them but because planning permission was refused by York city council. Station being listed and grand central ticketing policy actively encouraged buy on board - GNER refused to sell GC tickets which were significantly cheaper than theirs and to permit them would have allowed GC to claim a percentage of the takings through ORCATS - were cited as significant grounds for refusal.

Huddersfield will get barriers, its just a matter of time but they are going in.

Platform tickets are available for all stations. There is no reason why a platform ticket cannot be issued for any given location. Should a ticket clerk refuse to sell one complaint should be addressed to ATOC. And tell Barry Doe aswell.

As for my stance on ticket barriers, if they have to be used man them properly. Not half baked attempts leaving one gate line open. Program the machines properly so it can recognise the different types, all Tickets should get a time and location stamp when inserted (except rovers and seasons) that way there can be no argument where and when it has been used, it will still allow break of journey but will stop reuse. train the staff fully in recognising the different ticket type also give them the authority to amend tickets in disuption situations and full powers of detention for evidence collection as full revenue protection oficers.

people turning up at barriers should be given a means to pay there and then, not simply waved thru and told to visit the ticket office on the way out or threatened with court action unless they have travelled with no means to pay.

i accept that The system will always have ways it will get abused, so lets at least find ways to make it easier for the genuine fare paying passenger to use and harder for the criminal element to get off lightly (no pun intended), or you might as well not bother with the expense and rip them all out!

 

[Starmill]

Hazel Grove?

Really!?

Wow. I thought Oxford Road was the only barriered one in GM!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Really!?

Wow. I thought Oxford Road was the only barriered one in GM!

I'd split it down into three categories:
Human gatelines (G4S (or similar) staff checking tickets; with varying levels of permanence) - Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Victoria, Deansgate, Stockport, Manchester Airport, Wigan Wallgate and Bolton, plus perhaps a few others.
Modern gatelines (as seen nationwide) - Manchester Oxford Rd.
Turnstyle gatelines (included as part of new booking offices throughout the 1980s and 1990s) - Hazel Grove, Brinngton and Bredbury. I don't know how often they are used. As can be seen, they aren't actually ticket gates, they look more like flow-control equipment.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for the quietest, how about Colwyn Bay, just a tad under 300,000 passengers last year, and only 4-5tph in total off-peak.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

...

Huddersfield will get barriers, its just a matter of time but they are going in.
...

That's good- Presumably the barriers will be more courteous and polite!

 

[swt_passenger]

York has no barriers, not because the TOC concerned doesn't want them but because planning permission was refused by York city council. Station being listed and grand central ticketing policy actively encouraged buy on board - GNER refused to sell GC tickets which were significantly cheaper than theirs and to permit them would have allowed GC to claim a percentage of the takings through ORCATS - were cited as significant grounds for refusal.

The connection to GC ticketing policy is pretty much irrelevant, surely? GC happily operate a buy on board policy at fully gated Kings Cross. ORCATS also provides an income for GC in the normal manner anyway, which is why GC have always accepted any permitted tickets as well as their own.

AFAICS the only issue preventing barriers at York was the local planning decision.

 

[island]

GNER refused to sell GC tickets which were significantly cheaper than theirs and to permit them would have allowed GC to claim a percentage of the takings through ORCATS - were cited as significant grounds for refusal.

That sounds bogus. For one thing, GNER and Grand Central never coexisted.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I believe that such problems with GC at the barriered Bradford Interchange are avoided by a policy that anyone who arrived 10 mins (or sooner) before departure time is allowed through the gateline ticketless to buy onboard. Of course though, BDI is more compact and a lot quieter, ergo easier to monitor, than York.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

That sounds bogus. For one thing, GNER and Grand Central never coexisted.

They did but only for a few months. Indeed GNER's spat when GC applied for paths and started running is well known throughout the industry. GNER wouldnt even allow GC crews to undertake route learning on their trains, which meant they had to stick to northern, tpe and hull services until they started running their own route learning trains. Total contrast to today where GC and EC enjoy a healthy relationship of cooperation and will qute happily assist each other.

 

[island]

No, they didn't. Last GNER service was 08-DMR-07, first GC was 18-DMR-07.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

However surely the behind the scenes work such as training that gimmea50anyday was alluding to would have taken place before GC started comercially in the December, perhaps around summer and autumn 2008?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The connection to GC ticketing policy is pretty much irrelevant, surely? GC happily operate a buy on board policy at fully gated Kings Cross. ORCATS also provides an income for GC in the normal manner anyway, which is why GC have always accepted any permitted tickets as well as their own.

AFAICS the only issue preventing barriers at York was the local planning decision.

Actually the open ticketing policy was exactly why GC objected to the barriers being in place which would have been installed and manned by.... GNER! GC had no other way to sell their own tickets and the barriers would have prevented GC's passengers from entering the station without a ticket. Occasions where GC trains were cancelled management had to buy new tickets for their passengers to travel on GNER services. Such was the natur of GNER's objection to GC services.

This was by no means an influencing reason why there are no barriers, but it was still an objection that was lodged. The main reason being the planning permission issues in a grade 1 listed building. Fortunately the argument between GNER and GC didn't last long as SEACO met its demise.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There may well be elements of NXEC management that initially upheld GNER's spat. Don't forget GC did run preliminary services using mk2 stock and 47's from west coast as well as one of their hst's which helped with training etc

 

[dk1]

Huddersfield has no barriers, other than the human checks that seemed to have been stepped up recently based on my visit this afternoon. I think there's still plans to install gates in the recently extended concourse, but I'm not sure of the details. Maybe someone else on here knows more...

I was at Huddersfield mid-December & the headlines on the local paper proclaimed that permanent ticket barriers are to be installed at the station. Didnt purchase a copy so not sure exactly when.

 

[PaulLothian]

So basically, Name a Medium / Large station that sees a lot of passenger use that doesn't have ticket barriers,
Then, Explain why that station does not have ticket barriers,

... Perth

Perth is a very large station (took me three minutes to walk to the exit off an Inverness train last month) but it is not a busy station compared with many other in Scotland. Cost/Benefit Analysis would rule it out immediately!

 

[Butts]

Perth is a very large station (took me three minutes to walk to the exit off an Inverness train last month) but it is not a busy station compared with many other in Scotland. Cost/Benefit Analysis would rule it out immediately!

Strange though that Stirling does

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Strange though that Stirling does

Not really that strange when you consider that Stirling has 9-10 trains per hour (compared to Perth's 3-4), and well over double the passenger numbers per ammun (2,267,000 as opposed to Perth's 929,000).

 

[IanXC]

I presume the objection to the York barriers was around access to the Leeman Road (NRM) side of the station being blocked, as surely if the barriers themselves were the issue they could have been installed inside what is currently the self service area of the Travel Centre.

 

[dfurn]

Doncaster, last place I remember having Platform Tickets.

Peterborough
Crewe
Man Picc

Don't all manned stations still sell platform tickets? I got one at Leeds a few months back. They didn't work the barriers though; had to show it.

 

[island]

No they don't.

 

[Urban Gateline]

people turning up at barriers should be given a means to pay there and then, not simply waved thru and told to visit the ticket office on the way out or threatened with court action unless they have travelled with no means to pay.

Agree 100%, this is a big problem at most TOC's as CSA's that operate the barriers do not have an Avantix or any other way to take payment and issue a ticket other than referring to the ticket office when there is no RPI around.

As a CSA myself, I find this very demotivating that people will simply get "let off" as the majority of people, when you let them out, will not go to the ticket office and pay their fare, this is at a major London area station, where most people arriving will have had the opportunity to buy before boarding! Although it is the TOC's fault for not providing enough RPI cover!

 

[Max]

...as surely if the barriers themselves were the issue they could have been installed inside what is currently the self service area of the Travel Centre.

I would be shocked if there is enough room in there to accommodate enough barriers for the large volumes of passengers that use York. Also, presumably that would mean closing off access to all of the car parks too, which I doubt would be feasible.