Virgin Trains proposed Shrophire - Euston services

[ATW Alex 101]

Or just a simple reversal at Tysley

 

[jimm]

That part I am just trying to workout on a few railway maps that I have available...... But Moor Street I would have said is more Central that New Street with regards the City Centre and Snow Hill would be useful for those in the area of the Council offices etc.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Okay, the only place I see that trains from Moor Street and Snow Hill can get to Shrewsbury is if they where able to join the WCML at Smethwick Galton Bridge in some way?

Have you ever been to Birmingham city centre, because reading what you have just posted above would suggest you haven't? Pretty hard to be any more central than New Street.

You obviously haven't been to Smethwick Galton Bridge. You can look at all the railway maps you like but they won't give you a clue as to the lie of the land.

 

[The Planner]

Reversals and going round the houses defeat the object of it all. Ain't gonna happen I'm afraid.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Which clearly demonstrates you don't know the area or the market. The key flow is Shrewsbury and Telford to central Birmingham, which was why BR ditched through London trains from Shropshire and focused instead on slick connections at New Street. Try to extract the modest London flow from the major flow and you are going to bleed money - W&S hoped they could hang on long enough for Virgin's protection from competition to end but couldn't manage it.

As someone who used the through trains from London in the late 80's early 90's and someones whose partner did so also we've always found this accusation of no through traffic as spurious. I also hardly think RR Central was concentrating on the central Birmingham market with 153's and anything else that happened to be on hand as replacements. The withdrawal of IC stock drove a lot of people off rail in Shropshire and Mid Wales as the capacity of the services was severely reduced.
It was driven by wanting to make IC books profitable in ready for privitisation.



Chiltern is a franchised operator, not an open access one like W&S, so can't operate out of its defined area.

How come ATW have had extensions to BHM INTl, Manchester Airport & Cheltenham if franchised operators are not allowed "out of area"?

 

[AndyLandy]

Or just a simple reversal at Tysley

Wouldn't that technically also necessitate a reversal at Moor Street/Snow Hill as well, you'd come up from London to Moor Street, Snow Hill, then back to Moor Street and down to Tyseley, then up and through New Street anyway, before proceeding up to Wolverhampton.

From the abstract "railway map" perspective, SGB is the only place that makes sense for this proposal, and that assumes that it's even possible to add suitable chords to allow that kind of running.

I think I'm firmly in the "Just send it via New Street" camp on this one.

 

[RobShipway]

Have you ever been to Birmingham city centre, because reading what you have just posted above would suggest you haven't? Pretty hard to be any more central than New Street.

You obviously haven't been to Smethwick Galton Bridge. You can look at all the railway maps you like but they won't give you a clue as to the lie of the land.

I have probably been to Birmingham a lot more times than you have owned cars and I have worked for many years within the midlands where I would go to Birmingham on a regular basis. My parents are originally from the Midlands as well with the fact that I have many relatives around the area.

If you look at Birmingham in maps, then the centre of it was where Birmingham Moor street stands today. Plus the fact that eventually you will have the likes of HS2 and the Metro Tram kine to that completed within the next few years, so it actually makes more sense with regards to paths for the trains for Shrewsbury to be going up via Moor Street.

With regards Smethwick Galton Bridge, yes I have been there many times as well and I have a relative that lives not far from the station there so know the area quite well.

So the question I propose to you is how would you route the service to Shrewsbury if all the paths into New Street are taken? Can you think of a better way?

 

[Rich McLean]

I have probably been to Birmingham a lot more times than you have owned cars and I have worked for many years within the midlands where I would go to Birmingham on a regular basis. My parents are originally from the Midlands as well with the fact that I have many relatives around the area.

If you look at Birmingham in maps, then the centre of it was where Birmingham Moor street stands today. Plus the fact that eventually you will have the likes of HS2 and the Metro Tram kine to that completed within the next few years, so it actually makes more sense with regards to paths for the trains for Shrewsbury to be going up via Moor Street.

With regards Smethwick Galton Bridge, yes I have been there many times as well and I have a relative that lives not far from the station there so know the area quite well.

So the question I propose to you is how would you route the service to Shrewsbury if all the paths into New Street are taken? Can you think of a better way?

They would be extensions of the existing Wolves trains, but 2x221s vice 390 as far as Wolves, with a single 221 from Wolves to Shrewsbury/Wrexham/Chester where it could be attached to another 221 on a Chester - Euston Service and vice versa. This means no new paths will be needed

 

[Gareth Marston]

I have probably been to Birmingham a lot more times than you have owned cars and I have worked for many years within the midlands where I would go to Birmingham on a regular basis. My parents are originally from the Midlands as well with the fact that I have many relatives around the area.

If you look at Birmingham in maps, then the centre of it was where Birmingham Moor street stands today. Plus the fact that eventually you will have the likes of HS2 and the Metro Tram kine to that completed within the next few years, so it actually makes more sense with regards to paths for the trains for Shrewsbury to be going up via Moor Street.

With regards Smethwick Galton Bridge, yes I have been there many times as well and I have a relative that lives not far from the station there so know the area quite well.

So the question I propose to you is how would you route the service to Shrewsbury if all the paths into New Street are taken? Can you think of a better way?

Cut the c@~p and just extend the EBW diagrams!

City Centers are all about where your going in the city center - its your center which may not be anyone elses. Take Cardiff - the politicians are down at Cardiff Bay as are Cardiff City Council, the university, law courts, police, museums and the Welsh govt civil servants are all nr Cathays Park, Queen St is right at the eastern edge of the shopping centre but to the east of it the Newport Rd is full of hotels and offices, Cardiff Central is at the SW corner of the shops but right next to the bus station, Millennium stadium and the main restaurant, night life zone on St Marys and the new business zone to the south east of it.

 

[RobShipway]

Cut the c@~p and just extend the EBW diagrams!

City Centers are all about where your going in the city center - its your center which may not be anyone elses. Take Cardiff - the politicians are down at Cardiff Bay as are Cardiff City Council, the university, law courts, police, museums and the Welsh govt civil servants are all nr Cathays Park, Queen St is right at the eastern edge of the shopping centre but to the east of it the Newport Rd is full of hotels and offices, Cardiff Central is at the SW corner of the shops but right next to the bus station, Millennium stadium and the main restaurant, night life zone on St Marys and the new business zone to the south east of it.

I agree with your point Gareth as I know, the area around Moor Street is with the liks of the HS2 line being built nearby is potentially going to be re - developed, which would mean that the area around the Bull Ring/New Street area maybe becoming a ghost area in years to come such that the centre of activity and life would be then around that area. Otherwise it is pointless for people to be considering building HS2 outside the main city centre area as people see it today, is it not?

 

[calc7]

Ghost area? What with those dozens of services an hour there?

Robbies, have you a vested interest in Moor St? You appear to be championing with no justification other than your own anecdotes.

 

[RobShipway]

Ghost area? What with those dozens of services an hour there?

Robbies, have you a vested interest in Moor St? You appear to be championing with no justification other than your own anecdotes.

No just facing facts as that has what has happened with other areas that have been re - developed, it has caused once populated with regards shopping to close down. In the same way that out of town shopping centres, have helped to kill the High Streets in most town centres.

And no I don't have a vested interest in Moor street and if I had my way the likes of HS2 would go into an underground station around by the Birmingham Library as it is even more central than New Street.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

The planners post is correct, He, nor many people just dont see it viable to be sending intercity trains on reversals and here there everywhere. Just wouldnt be efficient enough for express trains what with the timings and that. IMO the only sensible route for London to Shrewsbury for good enough timings would be the normal route through Birmingham or the old WSMR route. Lack of paths on the WCML to Brum would sort of prevent this thogh, unless you use the existing ones for the Wolverhampton Pendos and extend them.

 

[jimm]

Which clearly demonstrates you don't know the area or the market. The key flow is Shrewsbury and Telford to central Birmingham, which was why BR ditched through London trains from Shropshire and focused instead on slick connections at New Street. Try to extract the modest London flow from the major flow and you are going to bleed money - W&S hoped they could hang on long enough for Virgin's protection from competition to end but couldn't manage it.

As someone who used the through trains from London in the late 80's early 90's and someones whose partner did so also we've always found this accusation of no through traffic as spurious. I also hardly think RR Central was concentrating on the central Birmingham market with 153's and anything else that happened to be on hand as replacements. The withdrawal of IC stock drove a lot of people off rail in Shropshire and Mid Wales as the capacity of the services was severely reduced.
It was driven by wanting to make IC books profitable in ready for privitisation.



Chiltern is a franchised operator, not an open access one like W&S, so can't operate out of its defined area.

How come ATW have had extensions to BHM INTl, Manchester Airport & Cheltenham if franchised operators are not allowed "out of area"?

Please read what people post more carefully before you write things like this. I said the key flow was to Birmingham. I did not say there was no London traffic, just that it simply was not on the scale of that to the West Midlands - and isn't now either. Virgin made a lot of fuss about reinstating some through trains to Shrewsbury in the late 1990s, then rapidly discovered that they couldn't make the numbers add up, due to the operating costs, same as BR. W&S tried their level best to make it work (but were unable to take any slice of the Birmingham revenue due to Virgin's no-competition clause) and they couldn't either. Sorry if you don't like it but the facts really do speak for themselves here.

If you have fast Shropshire through trains which are extensions of Wolverhampton expresses, then the odds of making some sort of Shropshire service work in the long run are better than faffing around with loco changes at Wolverhampton or going half-way round Birmingham like W&S did - but it will not change where most passengers using the line from Shrewsbury and Telford are going - Birmingham.

And I lived in Birmingham, Wolverhampton or Shropshire for most of the time from the mid-1980s to the late 1990s, so had plenty of opportunity to observe what was going on for myself.

The extensions of ATW trains to the airports and Cheltenham all followed requests from ATW to the regulator, which were duly approved after a consultation process, because they were modest, sensible and weren't going to blow a hole in the revenue of other franchised operators. Their attempt to go to London from Birmingham wasn't approved. Chiltern has no interest whatever in going to Shropshire - not least after the experience of its late sister firm W&S.

I have probably been to Birmingham a lot more times than you have owned cars and I have worked for many years within the midlands where I would go to Birmingham on a regular basis. My parents are originally from the Midlands as well with the fact that I have many relatives around the area.

If you look at Birmingham in maps, then the centre of it was where Birmingham Moor street stands today. Plus the fact that eventually you will have the likes of HS2 and the Metro Tram kine to that completed within the next few years, so it actually makes more sense with regards to paths for the trains for Shrewsbury to be going up via Moor Street.

With regards Smethwick Galton Bridge, yes I have been there many times as well and I have a relative that lives not far from the station there so know the area quite well.

So the question I propose to you is how would you route the service to Shrewsbury if all the paths into New Street are taken? Can you think of a better way?

No idea what cars have to do with it but frankly, if you have spent so much time in Birmingham, how you could say Moor Street is more central than New Street, I really don't know. It just isn't, especially when it is cut off from the city centre by the cliffs formed by the backs of the Bull Ring, the Pavilions and M&S.

The only city centre Metro extension on the cards at the moment will go to New Street. Any route to Curzon Street would be highly unlikely to run near Moor Street, up to Snow Hill most likely, but with Shropshire services on LNW metals anyway, it's neither here nor there, is it?.

If you've been to Galton Bridge many times, you ought to know that the two railway lines are at completely different levels and that the bridges there cross a wide chasm with the canal at the bottom of it, which runs alongside the Birmingham-Wolverhampton line, so there is no prospect whatever of creating a connection between the lines without spending huge sums of money.

I'd route a service to Shrewsbury the way Virgin would appear to be planning to do it - straight up the main line from New Street to Wolverhampton. Simples.

So Birmingham city centre is going to move to Curzon Street is it? Don't think so.

New Street is a bad enough hole in the ground, why create another one? Never mind the differences in ground levels between Curzon Street and the city centre (and I don't mean Moor Street here). Also, if you have dug your hole in the ground, where is HS2 then meant to go to get out of Birmingham to go north?

 

[dvboy]

I was thinking about suggestions they might call at SGBand stations such as Cosford. Presumably the trains lengths and need for platform dispatch rules many of these stations out?

 

[RobShipway]

Please read what people post more carefully before you write things like this. I said the key flow was to Birmingham. I did not say there was no London traffic, just that it simply was not on the scale of that to the West Midlands - and isn't now either. Virgin made a lot of fuss about reinstating some through trains to Shrewsbury in the late 1990s, then rapidly discovered that they couldn't make the numbers add up, due to the operating costs, same as BR. W&S tried their level best to make it work (but were unable to take any slice of the Birmingham revenue due to Virgin's no-competition clause) and they couldn't either. Sorry if you don't like it but the facts really do speak for themselves here.

If you have fast Shropshire through trains which are extensions of Wolverhampton expresses, then the odds of making some sort of Shropshire service work in the long run are better than faffing around with loco changes at Wolverhampton or going half-way round Birmingham like W&S did - but it will not change where most passengers using the line from Shrewsbury and Telford are going - Birmingham.

And I lived in Birmingham, Wolverhampton or Shropshire for most of the time from the mid-1980s to the late 1990s, so had plenty of opportunity to observe what was going on for myself.

The extensions of ATW trains to the airports and Cheltenham all followed requests from ATW to the regulator, which were duly approved after a consultation process, because they were modest, sensible and weren't going to blow a hole in the revenue of other franchised operators. Their attempt to go to London from Birmingham wasn't approved. Chiltern has no interest whatever in going to Shropshire - not least after the experience of its late sister firm W&S.



No idea what cars have to do with it but frankly, if you have spent so much time in Birmingham, how you could say Moor Street is more central than New Street, I really don't know. It just isn't, especially when it is cut off from the city centre by the cliffs formed by the backs of the Bull Ring, the Pavilions and M&S.

The only city centre Metro extension on the cards at the moment will go to New Street. Any route to Curzon Street would be highly unlikely to run near Moor Street, up to Snow Hill most likely, but with Shropshire services on LNW metals anyway, it's neither here nor there, is it?.

If you've been to Galton Bridge many times, you ought to know that the two railway lines are at completely different levels and that the bridges there cross a wide chasm with the canal at the bottom of it, which runs alongside the Birmingham-Wolverhampton line, so there is no prospect whatever of creating a connection between the lines without spending huge sums of money.

I'd route a service to Shrewsbury the way Virgin would appear to be planning to do it - straight up the main line from New Street to Wolverhampton. Simples.

So Birmingham city centre is going to move to Curzon Street is it? Don't think so.

New Street is a bad enough hole in the ground, why create another one? Never mind the differences in ground levels between Curzon Street and the city centre (and I don't mean Moor Street here). Also, if you have dug your hole in the ground, where is HS2 then meant to go to get out of Birmingham to go north?

If you live in the local area, then you would know that the Metro service has been granted permission to extend down past Moor Street and on to Curzon Street.......mmmmmm.......I wonder why that is the case?

To be honest I thought your comment was rude. There are many people giving ideas not just in this thread or in this forum because they will never see teh light of day and yes mine is probably one of them, but give some respect please that I am willing to come up with an idea, whereas you ahve come up with nothing within this thread other than being critical of others.

 

[jimm]

If you live in the local area, then you would know that the Metro service has been granted permission to extend down past Moor Street and on to Curzon Street.......mmmmmm.......I wonder why that is the case?

To be honest I thought your comment was rude. There are many people giving ideas not just in this thread or in this forum because they will never see teh light of day and yes mine is probably one of them, but give some respect please that I am willing to come up with an idea, whereas you ahve come up with nothing within this thread other than being critical of others.

"Granted permission" - where's your evidence? Because I have looked and I can't find any - not on the Centro website, which seemed the obvious place to look, since they are responsible for Midland Metro, nor anywhere else. There are proposals and maps out there with lines drawn on them towards the proposed site of Curzon Street HS2 station - none of which seem to go past the entrance to Moor Street - but nothing suggesting anyone has granted permission for anything.

Why would you be granting permission for a Metro line when HS2 is nowhere near being approved and when even the extension to New Street is unlikely to see a tram for another two years? As far as I'm aware, going to Dudley is a rather bigger priority for Centro than a link to Curzon Street, which won't be needed until the back end of the 2020s, assuming HS2 goes ahead.

If you think me saying things like that is rude, that's up to you. But if you are going to post things, how about rooting them in fact - which your "granted permission" does not appear to be, unless you can show me something that proves that is the case - or at the very least common sense - connecting the Snow Hill route and the New Street to Wolverhampton line at Galton Bridge doesn't fit into that category, due to the layout of the two lines and the landscape they run through there and there's no need to do it, as the Shropshire trains will be on the New Street route anyway.

If you aren't going to take either approach, then I will feel free to criticise.

And if you care to go back up the thread, I don't think my earlier posts were critical of others' points. They got critical when we started to get into things like 'let's send Shropshire trains via Sutton Park' or 'send them on the Chiltern line'. Why, when, as others have said here, not just me, there's a perfectly good route there already, which would offer a faster journey - even with a change at New Street or Wolverhampton - than going any other way? And, which strangely enough, is the very route Virgin will use.

 

[RobShipway]

"Granted permission" - where's your evidence? Because I have looked and I can't find any - not on the Centro website, which seemed the obvious place to look, since they are responsible for Midland Metro, nor anywhere else. There are proposals and maps out there with lines drawn on them towards the proposed site of Curzon Street HS2 station - none of which seem to go past the entrance to Moor Street - but nothing suggesting anyone has granted permission for anything.

Why would you be granting permission for a Metro line when HS2 is nowhere near being approved and when even the extension to New Street is unlikely to see a tram for another two years? As far as I'm aware, going to Dudley is a rather bigger priority for Centro than a link to Curzon Street, which won't be needed until the back end of the 2020s, assuming HS2 goes ahead.

If you think me saying things like that is rude, that's up to you. But if you are going to post things, how about rooting them in fact - which your "granted permission" does not appear to be, unless you can show me something that proves that is the case - or at the very least common sense - connecting the Snow Hill route and the New Street to Wolverhampton line at Galton Bridge doesn't fit into that category, due to the layout of the two lines and the landscape they run through there and there's no need to do it, as the Shropshire trains will be on the New Street route anyway.

If you aren't going to take either approach, then I will feel free to criticise.

And if you care to go back up the thread, I don't think my earlier posts were critical of others' points. They got critical when we started to get into things like 'let's send Shropshire trains via Sutton Park' or 'send them on the Chiltern line'. Why, when, as others have said here, not just me, there's a perfectly good route there already, which would offer a faster journey - even with a change at New Street or Wolverhampton - than going any other way? And, which strangely enough, is the very route Virgin will use.

I suggest that you read http://www.centro.org.uk/newsroom/PressReleases/PressRelease46734.aspx and see the point:

Plans are already being developed to use the current Birmingham city centre extension (Snow Hill to New Street) and build a new spur leading from Upper Bull Street across to Moor Street station and the forthcoming HS2 station.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but I believe for plans to be made approval has to be given?

 

[jimm]

I suggest that you read http://www.centro.org.uk/newsroom/PressReleases/PressRelease46734.aspx and see the point:

Plans are already being developed to use the current Birmingham city centre extension (Snow Hill to New Street) and build a new spur leading from Upper Bull Street across to Moor Street station and the forthcoming HS2 station.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but I believe for plans to be made approval has to be given?

Yes, you are wrong. The words you used were

the Metro service has been granted permission

not

plans are being developed

.

There is a world of difference between the two. You draw up a plan - put some lines on a map in this case - then you have to apply for formal permission to implement it, in order that people/businesses have a chance to comment and suggest changes and point out potential problems.

Unless and until HS2 is approved, there's no point spending time and money taking the steps for a Curzon Street line to be "granted permission".

 

[NickJ]

Virgin Trains have today confirmed that they are applying for track access for 2 trains a day Shropshire-Euston. Does anyone have any details of timings and calling stations?

 

[Proud Salopian]

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/...or-direct-link-between-shropshire-and-london/

Plans finally in for direct link between Shropshire and London

The long-awaited direct rail link between Shropshire and London could be up-and-running by the end of the year as plans have now been submitted to the government, it was revealed today.

Virgin Trains has detailed the route between Shrewsbury and the capital and finally put forward its formal proposals to the Department for Transport in a major step forward for the scheme.

The West Coast Main Line operator hopes to have a response, as well as the green light for a separate application for track access rights, in the spring.

Virgin spokesman Jim Rowe said: “It’s something we want to do, and fairly quickly. We have the franchise contract for another two years, but want to reinstate the services to Shrewsbury before that, and the earliest that could happen is December.

“We have put proposals to those two bodies, and it’s our desire to start those services by this December.”

He added: “The next stage is to get those authorisations, and we would hope to have them in early spring as we want to get the services up and running.”

Under the proposals, two trains would run each way between Shrewsbury and London every day, stopping at Telford.

At present, they are expected to run outwards at 7.06am and 3.06pm, returning from the capital at 11.33am and 6.37pm.

As the track is not electrified, they would need to run as diesel trains – which had also been the intention of First Group, had it been allowed to keep the West Coast franchise amid confusion over the bidding process last year.

That franchise process is now mired in delay after a series of blunders by the Department of Transport.

I heard via Stafford too..?

 

[Rich McLean]

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/...or-direct-link-between-shropshire-and-london/



I heard via Stafford too..?

Nope, if you read the article, trains are going via Telford, so I suspect those will be run by Voyagers via Telford, Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street, effectivly replacing a Wolves - Euston Path. It also appears the only stop between Shrewsbury and Wolves will be Telford Central

Calling pattern will probably be:
Down: Shrewsbury - Wellington (Salop) Telford Central - Wolverhampton - Sandwell & Dudley - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham Int - Coventry - Rugby - Milton Keynes - London Euston

Up: Euston - MKC - Rugby - Coventry - BHI - Birmingham New Street - Sandwell & Dudley - Wolves - Telford Central - Wellington (Salop) - Shrewsbury

Still, it sounds good

 

[NickJ]

Virgin Trains spokesman Jim Rowe has just stated on Radio Shropshire that the trains will call at Wellington and Telford and start in December (subject to getting ORR and Network Rail track access).

 

[tbtc]

Presumably a 07:06 should give a reasonable arrival time in New Street, so could be quite a busy service (assuming that this is in addition to the LM/ ATW services through Telford).

 

[PHILIPE]

There is already an ongoing and active thread on an "Alterations, Diagrams etc" topic

 

[Rich McLean]

I would imagine, something like this:

Down: Shrewsbury - Wellington (Salop) Telford Central - Wolverhampton - Sandwell & Dudley - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham Int - Coventry - Rugby - Milton Keynes - London Euston

Up: Euston - MKC - Rugby - Coventry - BHI - Birmingham New Street - Sandwell & Dudley - Wolves - Telford Central - Wellington (Salop) - Shrewsbury

I doubt you would see the exact timings until the track access applications is accepted by NR

 

[Proud Salopian]

Nope, if you read the article, trains are going via Telford...

I know the article doesn't mention Stafford but on Radio Shropshire they were saying (earlier today) that it would run via Stafford. (Obviously the trains will be via Telford.) Now that "via Stafford" news could just have been a mistake by Radio Shropshire, but it's not out of the question?

 

[SprinterMan]

I would imagine, something like this:

Down: Shrewsbury - Wellington (Salop) Telford Central - Wolverhampton - Sandwell & Dudley - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham Int - Coventry - Rugby - Milton Keynes - London Euston

Up: Euston - MKC - Rugby - Coventry - BHI - Birmingham New Street - Sandwell & Dudley - Wolves - Telford Central - Wellington (Salop) - Shrewsbury

I doubt you would see the exact timings until the track access applications is accepted by NR

Personally, I suspect they will be extensions of existing Wolvo trains, so I reckon the calling pattern will be:

Down: Shrewsbury - Telford Central - Wolverhampton - Sandwell & Dudley - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Watford Junction - London Euston

Up: London Euston - Watford Junction - Coventry - Birmingham International - Birmingham New Street - Sandwell & Dudley - Wolves - Telford Central - Shrewsbury

I don't think they will call at Wellington, as WSMR were always considering withdrawing service from there due to lack of patronage. Also, I believe Cosford will not be called at (as mentioned earlier) despite the former WSMR call, as it's annual passenger numbers are really quite low compared to other stations on the line; Shifnal, Codsall & Bilbrook actually have higher passenger numbers (!)

Adam

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'd always assumed the Cosford call was for the huge RAF base there. They must've made a fortune with walk on tickets on airshow weekends. It's also close to J3 of the M54.

 

[Rich McLean]

I'd always assumed the Cosford call was for the huge RAF base there. They must've made a fortune with walk on tickets on airshow weekends. It's also close to J3 of the M54.

The issue is, there is inadequate parking there. The Carpark further up the road by the main gate is now pass holders only, visitors carpark for RAF Cosford has a 20 minuite time limit, and the small car park by the Cafe is way too small, you'd be luck to get 10 cars in there.

The only time Cosford Station is remotely busy is during the Morning and Evening Peak, and on Thursday Evenings.

Friday Evening Peak is by far the busiest, but during the day, its dead.

The timings of these services would be of no use to Cosford Personnel heading home for a weekend. Believe me I know, I worked there for the best part of 2 years

 

[dave_wm]

Judging by the departure times in the Shropshire Star article (1133 & 1837), these may be additional services from Euston - no VT services currently depart at this time (existing Birmingham trains at xx03 & xx43, Wolverhampton at xx23).