Electric Locomotives.....What is the future?

[Beveridges]

I don't understand why DB Schenker and DRS don't organise some sort of 90/92 & 66 swap.

DB want more 66's but have more electrics than they want, DRS need electrics but won't even want any 66's if they had electrics. Makes sense to do some sort of swap.

As it stands DRS will be Double-heading the new Class 68 locos on the Intermodal traffic if the latest rumours are believed to be true.

 

[ash39]

I don't understand why DB Schenker and DRS don't organise some sort of 90/92 & 66 swap.

DB want more 66's but have more electrics than they want, DRS need electrics but won't even want any 66's if they had electrics. Makes sense to do some sort of swap.

As it stands DRS will be Double-heading the new Class 68 locos on the Intermodal traffic if the latest rumours are believed to be true.

A logical solution which benefits everyone and affects practically nothing? Don't be so naive

Seriously, whilst I like the idea I imagine there could be some complication with servicing/repair arrangements, eg if one operator 'breaks' another ones loco whilst on part of the swap, who pays?

 

[Photohunter71]

I have seen a CGI image of what the proposed class 93 UK Traxx would look like,in my opinion it looks very smart.Eversholt rail should press on with their development and also bringing them to the UK rail network.One question about the UK variant of Traxx I would like answered, is it necessary for the loco to have a pantograph at either cab end or is that for practical rather than aerodynamic reasons?

 

[captainbigun]

I have seen a CGI image of what the proposed class 93 UK Traxx would look like,in my opinion it looks very smart.Eversholt rail should press on with their development and also bringing them to the UK rail network.One question about the UK variant of Traxx I would like answered, is it necessary for the loco to have a pantograph at either cab end or is that for practical rather than aerodynamic reasons?

Eversholt?

Beacon are the LEASCO looking at TRAXX.

As for the pan, redundancy, nothing more.

 

[Photohunter71]

It has it on another site as a consortium between Eversholt Rail,Wabtec and Bombardier

 

[yummy125]

A video taken of the stored loco's at Crewe:

http://www.britishrailways.tv/train-videos/2012/crewe-electric-depot-withdrawn-locomotives/

Apart from 90 050 (how bad is the fire damage) none of the loco's below look bad enough to be stored & wasted for years, DBS should not be lazy & get them all working:

http://www.class90electriclocogroup.co.uk/Stored Class 90s 160812.pdf

List of stored 90:

http://www.wnxx.com/lists/class90.htm

List of stored 92:

http://www.wnxx.com/lists/class92.htm

Why don't the class 92's work freight around the southern region inc Eastleigh

 

[captainbigun]

Why spend £100ks on locos that you have no work for? It's not about laziness. Having looked around those locos that were up for tender two years ago, many are very tired and robbed. You'd have to have guaranteed work to pay the bill of reinstatement.

90050 is now LNWR's and has donated parts to 90042 which remains under repair at LNWR.

90050's fire damage was terminal, one end was completely burnt out with smoke and water damage to the rest of the loco.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Why don't the class 92's work freight around the southern region inc Eastleigh

Isn't there a problem with the power requirement in that the 3rd rail system is running very close to electrical capacity already?

 

[dave59]

Why spend £100ks on locos that you have no work for? It's not about laziness. Having looked around those locos that were up for tender two years ago, many are very tired and robbed. You'd have to have guaranteed work to pay the bill of reinstatement.

90050 is now LNWR's and has donated parts to 90042 which remains under repair at LNWR.

90050's fire damage was terminal, one end was completely burnt out with smoke and water damage to the rest of the loco.

Sounds like its a bit late now for these 90's but there certainly has been a lack of will to employ (even refurbished) electric locomotives, not just on freight but passenger, charters, and on rescue duties. ECML operators for e.g continue to take on diesels to the extent that Kings Cross now is little changed from the 1980's - HST's everywhere polluting the new glazing. Progress could have come at the time HST's were due to be re-engined in the form of new or modified existing electric locomotives to haul the Mk3's, but apart from their obvious flexibility for diversions etc, UK operators just seem to prefer diesels - its a cultural thing.

Does anyone know why the DRS Class 87 trial was a failure? Was it lease costs or electricity costs or reliability problems?

 

[Chris125]

Isn't there a problem with the power requirement in that the 3rd rail system is running very close to electrical capacity already?

Signalling interference is also an issue for the class which restricts where they can operate without modifications to the infrastructure.

Chris

 

[Beveridges]

Does anyone know why the DRS Class 87 trial was a failure? Was it lease costs or electricity costs or reliability problems?

I thought it was because of the expensive loco change from electric to diesel needed to get into the yards.
Or the lack of wiring at Carlisle Kingmoor so the need for a 66 to haul the 87 to depot for stabling/maintenance.
That and the electric costs which went up a lot during the year they were testing. Especially for an 87 due to the amount of power they need.

 

[dave59]

I thought it was because of the expensive loco change from electric to diesel needed to get into the yards.
Or the lack of wiring at Carlisle Kingmoor so the need for a 66 to haul the 87 to depot for stabling/maintenance.
That and the electric costs which went up a lot during the year they were testing. Especially for an 87 due to the amount of power they need.

Well the first two they would know about but electric costs? Perhaps.

There's something very wrong when using a 66 (or 2x66) is more economical than an 87. There is also something wrong when NR who supposedly have pathing difficulties with slow moving freight on the northern WCML were not able to incentivise use of the much more powerful locomotives. DRS even went to the effort of branding them so they must have been initially serious about the project and then the business case obviously went pear-shaped for some reason - or more likely I suspect a lack of will or can't do attitude.

 

[captainbigun]

Too difficult pile I would expect.

An 87 was going to be relatively cheap to maintain, certainly compared to a 47 or 37, a pair would move an intermodal up hill and down dale at line speed without issue.

Fuel for a pair of 66s must be horrendous. There's no way that a pair of 86/87 or 92 would be more expensive.

 

[Beveridges]

Fuel for a pair of 66s must be horrendous

Not much more horrendous than the fuel for pairs of 37s or 47s that they used to use before the 66's. Also with companies paying red diesel - which is very cheap per litre - its not going to be that much. The only real advantage of electric is the horsepower. Pairs of 87s with 10,000 hp at rail (or 15,000hp maximum rating) would make it much easier to get paths if freight ever increases on the WCML.

 

[captainbigun]

Not much more horrendous than the fuel for pairs of 37s or 47s that they used to use before the 66's. Also with companies paying red diesel - which is very cheap - its not going to be that much. The only real advantage of electric is the horsepower. Pairs of 87s with 10,000 hp at rail (or 15,000hp maximum rating) would make it much easier to get paths if freight ever increases on the WCML.

Energy saving electric vs diesel is around 30%....similar for CO2.

Still that horse has long since bolted. The only place you'll get a pair of 87s is Bulgaria.