Station locked up. Staff not shown.

[AlterEgo]

An emergency exit openable from the inside would prevent people being trapped on the station but would not solve the issue of intending passengers being locked out.

Are there not Help Points at these stations? A lockable exit, which can be remotely released from Control, might be a solution.

 

[sheff1]

Are there not Help Points at these stations?

I don't know, but if not they should surely be installed asap.

 

[PR1Berske]

Are there any legal implications here? Is it not a crime to hold people against their will??

It is.

 

[tsr]

Are there not Help Points at these stations? A lockable exit, which can be remotely released from Control, might be a solution.

Similar to the one at Peartree?

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Could they not get the Guard on the first train to check the stations are open?
If the shutters are down , or watch the first person exit! Otherwise he/ she could unlock the side gate.

 

[Wath Yard]

A similar incident at Bath a few years ago

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2522895.stm

Some of the passengers formed a battering ram to break down a door while others walked across the tracks.

I feel sorry for the passenger who was selected to be the head of the ram. hock:

 

[rebmcr]

Are there any legal implications here? Is it not a crime to hold people against their will??

It is.

I'm not sure "failing to release" is the same as "holding".

 

[Roverman]

I am by no means a legal expert but we used to pin lock the mechanism on our Fire Exits at night and then one day a fax came down from Head Office telling us not to do this anymore as there had been a case of an intruder becoming trapped and was allowed to sue!

Now if a criminal is allowed to do that, what about someone who is meant to be there!

 

[Realfish]

Are there not Help Points at these stations? A lockable exit, which can be remotely released from Control, might be a solution.

The organisation that I worked for had it's premises opened remotely by security using a timing system. The only problem we had was when someone forget to remember that the clocks had gone forward. I seem to remember that the public loo's (in Bradford on Avon?) used a similar system.

 

[FGW_DID]

Some of the passengers formed a battering ram to break down a door while others walked across the tracks.

A complete over reaction as usual, completely inexcusable - criminal damage and trespass on the tracks!

 

[michael769]

A complete over reaction as usual, completely inexcusable - criminal damage and trespass on the tracks!

I have to say that you show a surprising lack of empathy for people trapped in a distressing situation potentially all night with no sign of help coming. Not to mention the risks associated with not having a suitable emergency exit.

I think you would experience some difficulty in convincing a court that any alleged criminal damage or trespass included the requisite guilty intent in such circumstances. More likely the station operators would be too busy trying to avoid prosecution for their failure to provide adequate emergency exit provision and lack of adequate risk assessments.

 

[northwichcat]

A complete over reaction as usual, completely inexcusable - criminal damage and trespass on the tracks!

I'd say to experience a delay of up to 7 hours and then find yourself locked in a station is less excusable than a trespass incident to attempt to leave a station after all that has occurred.

Note that in the Nelson incident that I posted earlier on the Fire Service were called to let the trapped passengers out. If the same happened at Bath what's the probably that they would have broken a lock or damaged a door?

 

[FGW_DID]

Admittedly not what you want to find after a 7 hr delay but still no excuse to kick doors open and cross tracks as far as I'm concerned.

As you point out the fire brigade were called but they have a 'lawful excuse' as they are damaging the door in the execution of their duties so this should have been the correct course of action in this instance.

 

[Westboy]

There seems to be a lot of overreactions here. It was a mistake. Mistakes happen.

Funny how passengers are never allowed that excuse for whan an RPI is breathing down their neck, eh?

But obviously, it's fine when a TOC makes a mistake, bless 'em.

 

[BestWestern]

Admittedly not what you want to find after a 7 hr delay but still no excuse to kick doors open and cross tracks as far as I'm concerned.

As you point out the fire brigade were called but they have a 'lawful excuse' as they are doing their job so should have been the correct course of action in this instance.

I have to agree that you are way out of touch there. Pax forcing their way out of trains, against the instructions of staff, during disruption is unacceptable, as has been widely discussed on here before. However, this is completely different.

For passengers to be dumped inside a closed, locked station with no staff and no means of escape is an appalling mistake for a TOC to make, and it is perfectly understandable that people will force their way out if that is the only way they can escape. Would you really expect people to just sit around for the rest of the night and wait until the next shift turns up?! People who have been delayed for hours on end, people who may be ill, pregnant, elderly or infirm. What if somebody is travelling with a baby or young child, or somebody requires essential medication, or temperatures are freezing? Is it acceptable for them to spend the night on a platform, really?

I think not.

 

[Starmill]

Thats a poor excuse IMO. Could the Lancs United person not see on the screen(s) that the train was delayed and made a 'phone call to his/her boss for advice?

You have the honour to be the first person I have ever seen spelling "phone" with an apostrophe!

I've heard of people doing it, but never actually thought there were any...



By the way, great picture of Rochdale station there MEN, although I'd certainly be interested to see when that particular train was there...

 

[Mojo]

Things happen; people are ill, staff cars may break down or buses don't turn up. A relatively simple and cheap solution to the risk of having customers locked inside stations that don't have a night shift would perhaps be to implement a system that staff contact a duty manager by telephone to confirm the station is open and ready for traffic.

If no call is received then trains should be instructed to non-stop until someone is able to go down and open the station.

 

[Deerfold]

Things happen; people are ill, staff cars may break down or buses don't turn up. A relatively simple and cheap solution to the risk of having customers locked inside stations that don't have a night shift would perhaps be to implement a system that staff contact a duty manager by telephone to confirm the station is open and ready for traffic.

If no call is received then trains should be instructed to non-stop until someone is able to go down and open the station.

I'm now wondering what would happen under this system on a train I commonly catch which goes Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - London if Wakefield Westgate was closed...

[/Devil's Advocate]

 

[island]

Funny how passengers are never allowed that excuse for whan an RPI is breathing down their neck, eh?

But obviously, it's fine when a TOC makes a mistake, bless 'em.

Someone was bound to say that. And the response is staff discretion, which believe it or not, some RPIs do apply.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

You have the honour to be the first person I have ever seen spelling "phone" with an apostrophe!

I've heard of people doing it, but never actually thought there were any...



By the way, great picture of Rochdale station there MEN, although I'd certainly be interested to see when that particular train was there...

i was thinking that lol

looks like Heaton Chapel to me lol

 

[AlexS]

A complete over reaction as usual, completely inexcusable - criminal damage and trespass on the tracks!

Can't really condone going on the line, however I don't think kicking the door in, in the circumstances, is that much of a problem - it's probably the safest and easiest thing to do to resolve the situation. You can't just sit there, and customer relations etc are closed at that time of day so you can't exactly just summon help. My preferred option if there is a signal or lineside phone on the platform would have been to ring the signaller and get them to arrange help/let the TOC know, but the passenger wouldn't have known that.

 

[Starmill]

i was thinking that lol

looks like Heaton Chapel to me lol

I think it does indeed look like Heaton Chapel!

Don't know if you saw it, but a couple of months back there was a story about a pregnant woman on crutches who nobody would give up a seat for on a tram (Metrolink). The Daily Mail picked up the story with a cover image of.... an un-modified T68 with "G-Mex" on the front!!!!!

The photo was dated as 1992, before the Altrincham line was even opened. The station no longer exists, and the trams now look nothing like they do in the photo.

 

[CNash]

I don't know what the frequency of services is at that time of morning for Rochdale station, but could the trapped passenger not have boarded the next stopping service, traveled one stop down the line and doubled back via bus or taxi, instead of waiting an hour to be released?

 

[rebmcr]

Don't know if you saw it, but a couple of months back there was a story about a pregnant woman on crutches who nobody would give up a seat for on a tram (Metrolink). The Daily Mail picked up the story with a cover image of.... an un-modified T68 with "G-Mex" on the front!!!!!

The photo was dated as 1992, before the Altrincham line was even opened. The station no longer exists, and the trams now look nothing like they do in the photo.

Well T-68 units are still in service, and the station still exists under a different name, so it's more of an anachronism than being fully incorrect.

 

[DelayRepay]

I wonder why the passenger who was trapped didn't:

i. Telephone Northern Customer Services or even National Rail Enquiries for assistance;
ii. Telephone the Police for assistance;
iii. Speak to the guard of the next train to request assistance.

Equally the article doesn't say if any of the passengers who were locked out actually contacted Northern to let them know something was wrong.

 

[maniacmartin]

Regarding i)
Phoning Northern's 0845 number from a mobile would probably have cost as much as a train fare, and they didn't have the number to hand.

 

[DelayRepay]

Are there no posters at the station displaying the number?

They could have called a friend/work and asked them to call on their behalf.

 

[12CSVT]

Are there no posters at the station displaying the number?

They could have called a friend/work and asked them to call on their behalf.

Let's not forget this was 05:50 in the morning !

 

[DelayRepay]

But they were obviously expected at work. Unless they were also responsible for unlocking somewhere and left a load of their customers out on the street.... I wonder what they actually did for the hour?

 

[FGW_DID]

I have to agree that you are way out of touch there. Pax forcing their way out of trains, against the instructions of staff, during disruption is unacceptable, as has been widely discussed on here before. However, this is completely different.

For passengers to be dumped inside a closed, locked station with no staff and no means of escape is an appalling mistake for a TOC to make, and it is perfectly understandable that people will force their way out if that is the only way they can escape. Would you really expect people to just sit around for the rest of the night and wait until the next shift turns up?! People who have been delayed for hours on end, people who may be ill, pregnant, elderly or infirm. What if somebody is travelling with a baby or young child, or somebody requires essential medication, or temperatures are freezing? Is it acceptable for them to spend the night on a platform, really?

I think not.

It is an appalling mistake and no I don't just expect them to sit there and spend the night there but surely at least one passenger must have had a phone to call for help, be it police, fire or HM coastguard!!! But no lets just kick the door in and leave the station insecure for the vandals to get in and cause more damage. At least if the emergency services were called the premises would be secured afterwards (at the TOCs expense of course )

I know people probably weren't thinking straight and were understandably frustrated but other options should be explored first without resorting to breaking the law!