Cardiff Queen Street improvements

[Gareth Marston]

I believe having PEPs (most likely 315s in Wales, which can be shortened by 1 car?) and Mk3 EMUs available for cascade within the near future has improved the BCR for electrification on a number of lines.

The Welsh Govt's business case for Valley Lines electrification was made using 315's - assumption of around c40 diagrams needed.

 

[76020]

Here is a spanner is the works, this was the quote from the High Level Output Specification announcement on 15 July 2012

The landmark decision to take electric rail beyond Cardiff to Swansea, completing the full electrification of the Great Western Main Line out of London Paddington at a total cost of more than £600m, and electrifying the Welsh Valley lines, including Ebbw Vale, Maesteg and the Vale of Glamorgan. These will give two-thirds of the Welsh population access to new fleets of electric trains helping to generate Welsh jobs and growth by slashing journey times and boosting passenger and freight capacity.

Notice the "fleets of new electric trains"

Goodbye Class 315?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Here is a spanner is the works, this was the quote from the High Level Output Specification announcement on 15 July 2012

The landmark decision to take electric rail beyond Cardiff to Swansea, completing the full electrification of the Great Western Main Line out of London Paddington at a total cost of more than £600m, and electrifying the Welsh Valley lines, including Ebbw Vale, Maesteg and the Vale of Glamorgan. These will give two-thirds of the Welsh population access to new fleets of electric trains helping to generate Welsh jobs and growth by slashing journey times and boosting passenger and freight capacity.

Notice the "fleets of new electric trains"

Goodbye Class 315?

Well actually it reads: 'New fleets of electric trains.'

I suppose that that can be interpreted as being new to Wales.

 

[CardiffKid]

Well actually it reads: 'New fleets of electric trains.'

I suppose that that can be interpreted as being new to Wales.

Yes, sadly I always read it as 2nd hand trains from elasewhere, the Swansea/Cardiff - London trians will be new though,
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Welsh Govt's business case for Valley Lines electrification was made using 315's - assumption of around c40 diagrams needed.

http://wales.gov.uk/docs/det/policy/electrification/120830vleobc.pdf

See page 22 for rolling stock info

 

[76020]

Thanks for posting this and point taken, 2019 is six years away yet and maybe there will be more money around in a few years time, I sure that those nice people at Bombarder will more than eager to build some new stock.

 

[Dolge]

Worth remembering here that Merseyrail have started the process to procure a new fleet of EMU's by 2018. These are likely to be similar in specification to what is required on the Valleys lines - 3 car trains, 20m coaches, capable of handling sharp curves and steep gradients. There could well be economies of scale for WAG in a follow on order.

 

[anthony263]

Worth remembering here that Merseyrail have started the process to procure a new fleet of EMU's by 2018. These are likely to be similar in specification to what is required on the Valleys lines - 3 car trains, 20m coaches, capable of handling sharp curves and steep gradients. There could well be economies of scale for WAG in a follow on order.

As you have said there could be a good case to do this if the WG have the money or perhaps whoever gets the next wales franchise could make a new order for emu's as part of their bids.

 

[CardiffKid]

Bit more info on the timming if the mainline and valley line electrification:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20941072

Passengers will benefit from faster train services between Swansea and London by 2018 when work to electrify the line will be completed.

Network Rail says modernising one of the busiest lines into south Wales will cut 20 minutes off the three-hour journey.

The £350m investment will also see lines from Cardiff to the south Wales valleys electrified.

However those lines may not be ready until about 2020.

The south Wales rail electrification, and the prospect of longer, faster trains, was announced last summer by the Department of Transport.

Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
Network Rail is a cautious organisation - it has given a set of dates on which it has done a lot of work and therefore is convinced that these are set of dates which will work”
End Quote
Stuart Cole, professor of transport

University of Glamorgan
But Tuesday sees the first official timetable given by Network Rail which will be building the line.

The firm says electric trains powered by overhead cables are cheaper to run than diesels because of lower fuel and maintenance costs.

Much of the work is expected to be carried out at night, with a so-called factory train laying a mile of new track and cables every night once construction is underway.

Mark Langman, Network Rail route managing director for Wales, said: "The plans we have set out will deliver the biggest investment in the Welsh rail network since the Victorian era.

Passenger disruption

"Much of our infrastructure still dates from that period and this investment will help bring the network into the 21st Century."

Mr Langman said the electrification announcement of the Swansea and Valley lines was made back at the beginning of last summer.

He added: "They're commitments of the government and it's all about now the cost of building it and when we'll be building it."

He said passenger disruption when work starts on the lines would be kept to a minimum.

"It's early days in our planning and we're already working on using new innovations to try and keep disruption to passengers to a minimum," Mr Langman said.

"For instance, with the electrification, we've ordered a new machine that actually that works during the night when the trains aren't running."

He said the machine moved slowly at walking pace along the tracks putting the new equipment in the ground.

Last month, Welsh Secretary David Jones said Wales was benefiting directly or indirectly from almost £2bn modernisation.

Professor of transport Stuart Cole, from the University of Glamorgan, told BBC Wales the significance of the announcement was the "solid dates" given by Network Rail.

He said: "Network Rail is a cautious organisation. It has given a set of dates on which it has done a lot of work and therefore is convinced that these are set of dates which will work."


Electric trains will be powered by overhead cables installed on the line He said one of valley lines will have been electrified by 2017, allowing the train operator with the franchise to begin training drivers on the new trains.

He added: "All that needs to be done on a gradual basis so that by the date that's set out in the strategic plan, say 2020, all that work will have been completed.

"I think we can expect to see the first electric trains in the valley lines around 2017."

The other significant and new elements in the business plan is a timetable of improvements on signalling between Chester and Llandudno for 2015 and also work signalling between Newport and Shrewsbury.

Network Rail said this signalling work could take 15 minutes off journey times between north and south Wales

 

[Gareth Marston]

As you have said there could be a good case to do this if the WG have the money or perhaps whoever gets the next wales franchise could make a new order for emu's as part of their bids.

NR Strategic plan assumes cascade 3 & 4 car emu's.

 

[anthony263]

Seen on BBC Wales news tonight that work could start on electrification of the Valley Lines in 2015 although work might not be done til 2020 and possibly as late as 2024

Most likely that would be the Ebbw Vale branch if the wires are expected in Cardiff by 2017 so perhaps the Ebbw Vale branch could be the 1st line in wales to use emu's followed perhaps by the Maesteg service and the swanline service to Swansea

 

[RP]

All well and good for the Ebbw Vale and Maesteg branches to use emus first, but I hope that the capacity improvements can be carried out on both lines to support something better than the current one train per hour in each case - loops at Llanhilleth and Tondu, as well as the extension to Ebbw rn ale Town.

As others have written elsewhere on this forum, WG seems keen to spend large amounts of capital expenditure on roads but it needs to get the timing right if it is to avoid even greater expenditure in the future if the wiring teams have to return!

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Can anyone say where the new platform at Cardiff Central will be, please?

I travel through there every weekday, and have done for many years, and I can only think of two possible places. One is the the former platform five (which was a bay at the western end of platforms three and four) may be reinstated. The other is that part of the old branch line to Cardiff Docks (Saunders Road?) will be reinstated - there's a head shunt there which they use to stable locomotives.

Any thoughts / knowledge, please?

 

[PHILIPE]

Can anyone say where the new platform at Cardiff Central will be, please?

I travel through there every weekday, and have done for many years, and I can only think of two possible places. One is the the former platform five (which was a bay at the western end of platforms three and four) may be reinstated. The other is that part of the old branch line to Cardiff Docks (Saunders Road?) will be reinstated - there's a head shunt there which they use to stable locomotives.

Any thoughts / knowledge, please?

Opposite Platform 7, I believe, but I don't see how it can be the same lengh as the present platforms having to deviate from Platform 7.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Opposite Platform 7, I believe, but I don't see how it can be the same lengh as the present platforms having to deviate from Platform 7.

That would be a partial rebuild of the old line that went to the Docks, then. However, you're right that it can't be as long as the current platform 7; so is there any point?

 

[PHILIPE]

That would be a partial rebuild of the old line that went to the Docks, then. However, you're right that it can't be as long as the current platform 7; so is there any point?

For overtaking purposes or to get another train into Central quicker. Only if the train on Platform 7 drew right down.

 

[anthony263]

Can anyone say where the new platform at Cardiff Central will be, please?

I travel through there every weekday, and have done for many years, and I can only think of two possible places. One is the the former platform five (which was a bay at the western end of platforms three and four) may be reinstated. The other is that part of the old branch line to Cardiff Docks (Saunders Road?) will be reinstated - there's a head shunt there which they use to stable locomotives.

Any thoughts / knowledge, please?

Opposite platform 7. The south side of Cardiff central station is going to be expanded and the new platform and trackbed built on top of it.

There may be an opportunity once the signalling system is sorted to reverse some trains at Central without them having to shunt out to the carriage sidings near canton depot and this doesnt just include the valley lines services.

For example some trains do turnaround using platform 3 or 4 already especially if they are late, in particular the Nottingham services

 

[krus_aragon]

Can anyone say where the new platform at Cardiff Central will be, please?

I travel through there every weekday, and have done for many years, and I can only think of two possible places. One is the the former platform five (which was a bay at the western end of platforms three and four) may be reinstated. The other is that part of the old branch line to Cardiff Docks (Saunders Road?) will be reinstated - there's a head shunt there which they use to stable locomotives.

Any thoughts / knowledge, please?

Until a year or so ago platform 5 was to be reinstated as well as building a new platform 8, but it seems to be just the one left in the plan.

The old Riverside station (the building that serves as an entrance from the car park) that led south to Clarence Road doesn't take any part in the new plans: Riverside's platforms, now used as stabling, lead off south whereas platform 8 is to be a new through platform alongside pltform 7. A new retaining wall is to be built in front of the current one (coming several metres into the car park) then the new track and platform will be built on top. The Riverside building will be demolished and replaced with a new building, with better queueing/access to the Valleys platforms during matchtimes. Staff rest areas in the building will be replaced with a new build of some type, although the "planning permission" document submitted to the council offices suggested it will be a glorified portacabin.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Thank you for this; I see where you mean, now.

I didn't appreciate that there will be a new construction in the car park. I thought that it was just going to be a refurbishment of the existing building.