Advances not available when replacement bus service on - is this correct?

[Mark_H]

I was booking for a late Sunday evening train in Feb, and found that a) it was scheduled to be a bus and b) no advances were available. I enquired on the TPE website (they have a "online chat" option), and was told that as advances require reservations, and there are no reservations available on a bus, they could not sell advances.

Now, the replacement bus has to be filed under "Things That Can't Be Helped", but I'm feeling a bit dubious about the explanation given about the ticket, particularly as the change from £5 advance to £18ish is rather steep. Can anyone confirm if this is a genuine rule and/or ticket software limitation?

(I'm also alive to the possibility that the advisor was totally wrong, and they'd just sold out all advances, although having every service that evening sell them out seems a little unlikely)

Thanks in advance, Mark

 

[Paul Kelly]

Can you give details of the date, time and journey? If the entire journey is on a bus then no, no advances are possible because at least part of the journey has to be reservable for advances to be sold. Assuming that at least part of the journey is actually on a reservable train, one possiblity is that the advances are valid on "TPE Only" but the bus is shown in journey planners as being operated by Northern or something, although that's just a stab in the dark.

 

[Mark_H]

Yes, the whole thing is by bus, which explains what I was told. I've had to take the replacement bus on this service a few years ago, but with an advance including train travel from elsewhere, which explains why I hadn't run across this rule before. Thanks for your help, Indigo2.

More generally, while I'm sure there are some practical reasons for this rule in the background, it has the net effect of tripling the cost of the journey, which the bus will be making 3 times less pleasant Surely they could print advances with reservation coupons showing "Bus" where the seat number should be, or something?

 

[NSEFAN]

This weekend, there are replacement buses running between Eastleigh and Brockenhurst, some of which are showing cheap advance 1st singles! I suspect therefore the lack of advance tickets on this date is either because they have already been sold, or First TPE have lowered their availability on this date.

I would imagine that if the lack of advance tickets is intentional, it is to try and reduce the number of people travelling (and hence reducing the transfer times for the replacement buses).

 

[radamfi]

Can you get an Advance for a trip that is partly run by reservable train service but includes the bus ride in question? So you just don't use the train part of the ticket.

 

[Mark_H]

Can you get an Advance for a trip that is partly run by reservable train service but includes the bus ride in question? So you just don't use the train part of the ticket.

I think that not traveling the whole of your advance is against the t&c's?

 

[AeroSpace]

I think that not traveling the whole of your advance is against the t&c's?

This would be practically impossible to enforce at an interchange between rail and bus.

 

[Mark_H]

I would imagine that if the lack of advance tickets is intentional, it is to try and reduce the number of people travelling (and hence reducing the transfer times for the replacement buses).

Quite possibly true, if slightly disappointing. I'm not going to complain about engineering works (which are surely an inevitable part of running a railway), but the rail replacement buses they create can be somewhat haphazard and badly organised. I've had a bus at Doncaster fail to turn up because TPE simply forgot to schedule it, and one starting at Scunthorpe not turn up for 30mins while the Guard of the train that had just ended early at Scunthorpe rang up to find out where it was (because it was getting him home too!). When it finally turned up it was a airport-service minibus with a confused driver who didn't know where he was going.
On the other hand, I've turned up for a bus to find TPE staff selling refreshments off a trolley on the pavement and generally being very helpful, so it's not always bad.
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This would be practically impossible to enforce at an interchange between rail and bus.

Very true. In fact, during the last big attack of engineering works in my area, I hardly ever had my ticket checked on the bus, let alone by anyone with the facility to check if I'd traveled the previous section.

However, before someone chides me for contemplating an illegality, I have in fact sorted it out correctly (by paying up, regrettably, as Indigo's reply showed I was stuck with the situation) as it's part of a weekend's plans and I wanted to get the whole thing booked before the other advances I was after disappeared

 

[Paul Kelly]

This weekend, there are replacement buses running between Eastleigh and Brockenhurst, some of which are showing cheap advance 1st singles!

Which website/booking engine is showing this, and for which departure(s) on Sunday? I can't see it anywhere...

Edit: Just checked and there are no advance fares between Eastleigh and Brockenhurst - I think you must be mistaken. If there is a reservable train included elsewhere in a journey that includes travel from Eastleigh to Brockenhurst by bus though then yes, as I said in my original reply, advances can be made available.

 

[Goatboy]

Very true. In fact, during the last big attack of engineering works in my area, I hardly ever had my ticket checked on the bus, let alone by anyone with the facility to check if I'd traveled the previous section.

I have never, ever had a ticket checked on a rail replacement bus. Presumably because the bus drivers are not railway staff.

 

[NSEFAN]

Which website/booking engine is showing this, and for which departure(s) on Sunday? I can't see it anywhere...

Edit: Just checked and there are no advance fares between Eastleigh and Brockenhurst - I think you must be mistaken. If there is a reservable train included elsewhere in a journey that includes travel from Eastleigh to Brockenhurst by bus though then yes, as I said in my original reply, advances can be made available.

Yes, you are quite correct. The advance fares were for journeys including replacement buses, but I can't seem to find any more. I forget the exact journey I was looking at, but I defintely saw some on the Winchester - Weymouth route.

I just thought it was funny that the fares were for first class for a journey which had more time on the bus than the train.

 

[142094]

Last time I had a ticket checked on a bus replacement was by a member of railway staff who was helping people with queries at the bus stop. No other staff so no doubt could have wondered away from the station quite happily and saved a bit of money by breaking the journey.

 

[Mark_H]

I have never, ever had a ticket checked on a rail replacement bus. Presumably because the bus drivers are not railway staff.

Indeed. This rare occurrence was a separate member of staff, and the ticket check itself was perfunctory at best.

 

[RJ]

I drive rail replacement buses as a hobby occasionally and I will check tickets if I feel like it . I am authorised to but not officially required to.

 

[barrykas]

I've only been checked on a RRBS once, and that was in WAGN days on a rare Enfield Town - Tottenham Hale one, the check being undertaken by an RPI. Also fairly rare in that the train (bound for Liverpool Street) started from the Down platform at Tottenham Hale.

 

[richw]

I've found when rail replacement buses have been operating local branchlines its always turned Into a free trip as no ticket selling facilities are made available.

 

[34D]

I drive rail replacement buses as a hobby occasionally and I will check tickets if I feel like it . I am authorised to but not officially required to.

I do rrb's sometimes aswell, and I do likewise. Also of late, I've had rail staff board rrb's and check the passengers. This has included (most recently) ordering a ticketless passenger (early 20s female, very attractive) to go to the ticket office, and several months ago, encountering a passenger who needed to pay a £11 fare, letting him off the quid, and not issuing a ticket.

 

[bb21]

... and several months ago, encountering a passenger who needed to pay a £11 fare, letting him off the quid, and not issuing a ticket.

Is this allowed? I would imagine that the member of staff if caught doing this could have a tea & biscuit session to look forward to.

 

[wintonian]

Is this allowed? I would imagine that the member of staff if caught doing this could have a tea & biscuit session to look forward to.

Without the biscuits surely! Unless they were also let off the £10 as well, vulnerable passenger late at night etc. sort of thing?

 

[bb21]

My point is that surely a member of staff is not allowed to take money from a passenger without issuing a ticket, regardless of what amount.

 

[wintonian]

I get you. I'm suggesting that perhaps they did let them off the whole amount, a case off pax; "I don't have the extra £1" TOC staff; "okey I'll let you off on this occasion" - this example dialogue could mean either "I'll let you off the £1" or "I'll let you off buying a ticket"

 

[34D]

I get you. I'm suggesting that perhaps they did let them off the whole amount, a case off pax; "I don't have the extra £1" TOC staff; "okey I'll let you off on this occasion" - this example dialogue could mean either "I'll let you off the £1" or "I'll let you off buying a ticket"

I can assure you the member of staff's own pocket was involved. Imagine it would be a meeting without biscuits and also without tea.

 

[wintonian]

hock: hock:

In that case I hope someone did make a complaint.

 

[AlexS]

On the odd occasions I have to manage replacement buses, I always check tickets on entry - it's not fair to those who have paid.