16-25 Railcard before 10am

[CTBC]

I understand there's a minimum fare (£12) for tickets with a 16-25 railcard before 10am.

What happens if I buy an anytime ticket for after 10am on nationalrail.co.uk and get the full 1/3 off, but use it before 10am (as it is an anytime ticket)?

Has anyone tried this?

 

[CTBC]

I cant find anything that mentions doing this.

But when you buy an anytime ticket it says "Anytime : fully flexible tickets with no time restrictions on when you can travel. Perfect for people who need flexibility"

 

[SS4]

Condition 7 of the Railcard terms of use clearly states the minimum fare
http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/using-your-card/railcard-terms-conditions/

A £12 minimum fare applies for journeys starting between 4.30am-10am Monday to Friday excluding Advance Fares. This minimum fare does not apply on Public Holidays or throughout July and August.

I don't know what would happen in theory but I imagine you'd be excessed to £12 or the undiscounted ticket

 

[Mojo]

What happens if I buy an anytime ticket for after 10am on nationalrail.co.uk and get the full 1/3 off, but use it before 10am (as it is an anytime ticket)?

Minor pedantic point, but you cannot buy a ticket from nationalrail.co.uk as it does not sell tickets. But the question still stands as it is possible to buy a ticket from somewhere else.

In the past, I have had the ticket excessed on an Avantix machine to the undiscounted rate. I am not sure what the official policy is, or if this is documented anywhere.

 

[wintonian]

If for the journey you wished to purchase the ticket for had an off-peak restriction of 08:45 for example and no evening restrictions then it is highly unlikely (IMO) that you would find someone willing to sell such a discounted anytime fare unless it was for travel in July/ August.

 

[SS4]

If for the journey you wished to purchase the ticket for had an off-peak restriction of 08:45 for example and no evening restrictions then it is highly unlikely (IMO) that you would find someone willing to sell such a discounted anytime fare unless it was for travel in July/ August.

I believe the OP will hypothetically buy an Anytime ticket (online) putting in an outbound time after 10am (getting full discount) but travelling before 10am.

 

[richw]

I have found staff quite happy to sell discounted tickets during the above quoted time period. How would it stand if a RPI dcide my ticket under £12 is invalid. All I did was present my railcard and ask for specific journey ?

 

[N Levers]

As an aside a TOC i won't mention previously sold me (via their website) a 16-25 railcard Advance fare for less than £12 with a reservation for a train before 10am.

I had no trouble on the day but should it have been honored?

 

[Urban Gateline]

I understand ignorance is no excuse (and we all agree to T&C), but they don't make it very clear on any of the ticket purchasing sites (i.e. greateranglia.co.uk) that the ticket is only valid after 10am.

However as you said you agreed to the T&C's of the Railcard you hold, where it clearly states when the minimum fare applies, so it should be obvious that an under £12 Railcard discounted ticket is not valid before 10am on Weekdays (excluding times when the minimum fare doesn't apply)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As an aside a TOC i won't mention previously sold me (via their website) a 16-25 railcard Advance fare for less than £12 with a reservation for a train before 10am.

I had no trouble on the day but should it have been honored?

Advance tickets don't apply for minimum fare on Railcard discounts as far as I'm aware

 

[Firix]

Tickets bought online can use the railcard and are valid anytime (if it is an anytime ticket).

If you buy on the day then the ticket would be excessed up to the correct fare (or if an RPI caught you trying to do that to dodge money, they may prosecute you).

But getting it online is no problemo.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Tickets bought online can use the railcard and are valid anytime (if it is an anytime ticket).

This advice is simply incorrect. A ticket that is Railcard discounted to less than £12 and used before 10am is NOT VALID for travel before 10am when minimum fare restrictions apply.

 

[wintonian]

Tickets bought online can use the railcard and are valid anytime (if it is an anytime ticket).

Source for that please?

 

[Firix]

Not got a direct source, but that is what I have been told by the RPIs I work with (i'm a TE)

 

[reb0118]

As an aside a TOC i won't mention previously sold me (via their website) a 16-25 railcard Advance fare for less than £12 with a reservation for a train before 10am.

I had no trouble on the day but should it have been honored?

Not sure about being honored, unless of course it was Amtrak? However, as stated by Urban Gateline above, it should be honoured as there is no minimum fare, for railcard holders, on Advance tickets.

With anytime or off-peak tickets, in general, on my trains, if I come across this type of irregularity I will treat it as an issuing error and excess the fare to the cheaper of either the minimum fare (i.e £12) or the undiscounted fare if less than £12, with no further penalty.

 

[Flamingo]

Not got a direct source, but that is what I have been told by the RPIs I work with (i'm a TE)

Tell them to show you it in writing. Lots of urban myths about tickets amongst those who really should know better.

 

[wintonian]

Not got a direct source, but that is what I have been told by the RPIs I work with (i'm a TE)

Ah well, sorry but the current system is so complicated that even RPI's can be wrong or it's just the policy of your TOC not to peruse the matter in such cases.

However the NRCOC are never wrong and neither is the up-to-date routeing guide referred to by them.

 

[Sparks169]

Tickets bought online can use the railcard and are valid anytime (if it is an anytime ticket).

If you buy on the day then the ticket would be excessed up to the correct fare (or if an RPI caught you trying to do that to dodge money, they may prosecute you).

But getting it online is no problemo.

Totally incorrect I'm afraid. Tickets purchased with a railcard discount which totals an amount of less than the £12 minimum fare is NOT VALID before 10am weekdays or anytime the minimum fare applies. The fact a ticket says ANYTIME is completely irrelevant, the same as if it is purchased at a station or online. The minimum fare still applies before 10am.

Unfortunately yes a lot of online TIS do not provide a great deal of information about this but the policy is consistent for all tickets regardless of their method/location of purchase.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The ticket would be treated as a ticket not valid because of a time restriction and an excess fare should be issued for the difference between the fare paid and the £12 minimum fare (as per NRCoC Condition 12).

 

[Firix]

Hmmmm, I shall have to ask my colleagues about this in the morning

It does make sense.

 

[Wikipedia]

Quick question to add to this but it is relevant!

Is the £12 minimum before or after the discount is applied??

 

[Mojo]

Quick question to add to this but it is relevant!

Is the £12 minimum before or after the discount is applied?

After the discount is applied.

If the ticket cost £5.00, then you would pay £5.00 for the undiscounted ticket.
If the ticket cost £15.00, then you would pay £12.00 for the discounted ticket with the minimum fare.
If the ticket cost £20, then you would pay £13.20 for the discounted ticket.

 

[Firix]

After. If the total comes below £12 after the discount, the minimum fare of £12 is applied. So you could actually take a (for example) £2 ticket, use your railcard, then have to pay £12

 

[reb0118]

After. If the total comes below £12 after the discount, the minimum fare of £12 is applied. So you could actually take a (for example) £2 ticket, use your railcard, then have to pay £12

..........and a TVM will quite happily sell & issue such a ticket!

 

[Sparks169]

Quick question to add to this but it is relevant!

Is the £12 minimum before or after the discount is applied??

After.

For example if a ticket costs £12.50, using a railcard before 10am (M-F) will bring the price down to the minimum fare of £12.

If a ticket is priced at less than £12 then no discount can be applied.

Tickets priced well above £12 will have the 1/3 taken off, but no ticket can be priced lower than the £12 minimum fare.

e.g. a ticket costing £22.60 will be discounted to £14.90 (the full 1/3 off) as this is possible without reaching the £12 minimum.

 

[Firix]

Which also means if the price of both the SDR (anytime day return) would be the same as the SOR (anytime return) after the discount, often the best bet is to buy what would be the more expensive ticket. Can save you money if you get stuck overnight

 

[Sparks169]

Which also means if the price of both the SDR (anytime day return) would be the same as the SOR (anytime return) after the discount, often the best bet is to buy what would be the more expensive ticket. Can save you money if you get stuck overnight

Indeed.

Provided it is valid, always buy the cheapest ticket with the most flexibility, regardless of your plans, at least your covered.

 

[MikeWh]

At the risk of adding a further complication, you can get 16-25 discounted fares between 0430 and 0630 and after 0930 if you are using an Oystercard with the discount entitlement logged. The downside is that single fares aren't discounted between 1600 and 1900, nor between 0630 and 0930 in July and August.

 

[wintonian]

At the risk of adding a further complication, you can get 16-25 discounted fares between 0430 and 0630 and after 0930 if you are using an Oystercard with the discount entitlement logged. The downside is that single fares aren't discounted between 1600 and 1900, nor between 0630 and 0930 in July and August.

Yeh quite right we didn't need you coming in here with all your Oyster babel to confuse us - we were managing to do that all by our selves.

Hence why I stick to rail fares and leave Oyster to those with a higher brain capacity.

 

[Flamingo]

Yeh quite right we didn't need you coming in here with all your Oyster babel to confuse us - we were managing to do that all by our selves.

Hence why I stick to rail fares and leave Oyster to those with a higher brain capacity.

All I know about Oysters is that you should only eat them if thre is an R in the month

 

[SS4]

Advance tickets don't apply for minimum fare on Railcard discounts as far as I'm aware

That's correct (and explicitly stated in the railcard T&Cs)