Virgin Trains: Untouchable?

[Dave1987]

With the recent goings on with the WCML franchise it now seems Virgin are untouchable and are probably almost certainly going to get the next long term franchise on the WCML. I believe they are also palnning on bidding for the ECML as well.

My own experiance with Virgin Trains has been exceptionally poor. Whenever I have travelled with them I have rarely been on time and I find the pendo's very uncomfortable (although I do not wish to open that debate on this thread). I also find that the train manager never apologises for delays but remains very quiet but if they are on time is full of the joys of spring on the PA.

They also seem to have one of the worst PPM's of all the TOC's.

But it seems that no matter how bad Virgin really are people will always view them in a positive light.

 

[MKB]

I'm no fan of Virgin either, but the TM on my train now has been very informative about the near two-hour delay I'm currently experiencing. He's done an excellent job.

 

[aylesbury]

I have used Virgin many times and found the staff helpful in both classes,a train manager moved heaven and earth to ensure a mother and her four children sat together on a train from Preston.

 

[Bald Rick]

I have used Virgin many times and found the staff helpful in both classes,a train manager moved heaven and earth to ensure a mother and her four children sat together on a train from Preston.

Some people call their kids funny names don't they!

 

[455driver]

^^ very good ^^

 

[martinsh]

They also seem to have one of the worst PPM's of all the TOC's.

I thought London Midland were the only TOC with Parry People Movers ?!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

But it seems that no matter how bad Virgin really are people will always view them in a positive light.

It's the 'brand' effect at work, I think.
I seem to remember reading recently that when the cable networks of ntl, telewest and others were merged and relaunched as Virgin Media, customer satisfaction surveys not long after showed a marked improvement, even though all that had changed initially was the name on the customers bills ! :roll: The investment in providing fibre-optic broadband hadn't even begun at the time of the survey !!!

 

[Jatos]

Customer do like the fancy looks, there is no about that!

I must admit, the visual feel of Virgin Trains does actually make me feel happier when using them! The power of image is never to be underestimated!

 

[MCR247]

They also seem to have one of the worst PPM's of all the TOC's.
.

I'm still not 100% convinced that PPMs are actually really down to the individual TOCs

 

[Jatos]

Well when the whole WCML debacle was unfolding, and Virgin were critised for their PPM, the first thing they said that if the figures were studied it would become clear that Virgin were not responsible for their low punctuality, and that all operators on the WCML suffered from punctuality issues.

 

[MCR247]

Its not even that, but I just think that the PPM would probably be the same if it was being run by Abellio, SNCF, DB etc

I mean in some cases, it can be down to the TOC, such as LM with their constant lack of staff...

 

[Dave1987]

Its not even that, but I just think that the PPM would probably be the same if it was being run by Abellio, SNCF, DB etc

I mean in some cases, it can be down to the TOC, such as LM with their constant lack of staff...

So why on GA does the company get a seriously bad rep for signal failures that are out of the companies control on which the ppm suffers yet Virgin don't. There are a lot of ppl calling for GA to be struck off GEML for the ppm yet there is no one calling for Virgin to go despite having a worse ppm??

Doesn't make sense.

 

[MCR247]

So why on GA does the company get a seriously bad rep for signal failures that are out of the companies control on which the ppm suffers yet Virgin don't. There are a lot of ppl calling for GA to be struck off GEML for the ppm yet there is no one calling for Virgin to go despite having a worse ppm??

Because people are stupid and like to believe what they want to believe.

Doesn't make sense.

You say that like humans in general make sense

 

[F Great Eastern]

Anyone calling for GA to be kicked out clearly has short memories.

Whilst they are far from perfect, they are without a doubt better than what came directly before them. There really is no contest.

 

[Roverman]

It's the 'brand' effect at work, I think.
I seem to remember reading recently that when the cable networks of ntl, telewest and others were merged and relaunched as Virgin Media, customer satisfaction surveys not long after showed a marked improvement, even though all that had changed initially was the name on the customers bills ! :roll: The investment in providing fibre-optic broadband hadn't even begun at the time of the survey !!!

One of the guys at the LM assessment day works for Virgin Media and he pointed out to me that technically the business has nowt to do with Mr Branson as it is literally just a label on the firm.

As for VT I think its very much each to their own, I find the Pendolinos a very comfortable train and a vast improvement on the stock that preceded them. On the rare occasion they have been late invariably there has been an explanation provided and on the 1 occasion there wasn't (and the TM was hiding in the cab for the duration of the trip) I wrote in and got £50 in vouchers.

As for the PPM figures I studied them just before I went on the LM Assessment day in October and did not find them to be the worst.

 

[SkinnyDave]

I can see where you are coming from with his thread but I'd like to add my thoughts.

Whilst I'm not advocating everything Virgin done with the announcement I'm glad RB stuck to his guns throughout it as everyone on these forums hold the railway dear and we do need to ask where would the future of the industry have been if RB didn't fight as much as he did?!

It has been a fiasco but Branson's comment " I have spaceships to launch" resonates, he felt the process was flawed and wrong and it was.

That does not give Virgin the right to expect franchise awards but on a level playing field other pretenders to the throne will have to go some to beat them on a bid and that is a good thing for passengers in my opinion.

 

[LE Greys]

One of the guys at the LM assessment day works for Virgin Media and he pointed out to me that technically the business has nowt to do with Mr Branson as it is literally just a label on the firm.

As for VT I think its very much each to their own, I find the Pendolinos a very comfortable train and a vast improvement on the stock that preceded them. On the rare occasion they have been late invariably there has been an explanation provided and on the 1 occasion there wasn't (and the TM was hiding in the cab for the duration of the trip) I wrote in and got £50 in vouchers.

As for the PPM figures I studied them just before I went on the LM Assessment day in October and did not find them to be the worst.

Of course, it's 49% Stagecoach as well. Virgin, like almost all of the TOCs, have done what they can to run their trains properly and tried to improve the service as best they can. They haven't been helped by some of the running conditions on the WCML, though. Branson did a very neat spin-control job of losing the franchise (which I've just been reading about in Railway Magazine) but you have to admit he had a point. For instance "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. When will the Department for Transport learn?" was a clear reference to GNER and NXEC. That's what he's good at, though.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Because people are stupid and like to believe what they want to believe.



You say that like humans in general make sense

Or you can take the view that I pay my money to GA and I don't give a monkeys what the problem is in the background that is for them to sort out in order to give their customer what they have paid for.

 

[MCR247]

What I am saying is that whether you were paying your money to GA, First Great Anglia, Virgin Trains Anglia or GoVia Anglia the problem would still be there

 

[LE Greys]

What I am saying is that whether you were paying your money to GA, First Great Anglia, Virgin Trains Anglia or GoVia Anglia the problem would still be there

Exactly! It's not as if [Insert parent company name] Anglia can decide to resignal the line on its own. They pay their money to Network Rail, who are supposed to do it for them.

 

[MCR247]

Exactly! It's not as if [Insert parent company name] Anglia can decide to resignal the line on its own. They pay their money to Network Rail, who are supposed to do it for them.

Yeah so saying Virgin has a rubbish PPM doesn't actually reflect on Virgin unless they've been having staff shortages etc

 

[RichmondCommu]

The amount of hatred shown towards Virgin Trains on this forum is almost pathological at times. Virgin are a huge improvement on their predecessors; quicker and safer trains and in my considerable experience excellent customer service. Not only that but I’ve yet to be inconvenienced by a delay that was directly attributable to Virgin Trains after many years of travelling up and down the WCML. I really don’t think that having flash looking trains, a recognizable brand and fantastic PR can be considered such a heinous crime. Not only that, but customers will always value a seat over a panoramic view of Coventry.

 

[MCR247]

Virgin a huge improvement on their predecessors? So British Rail? And you've just posted this here? Someone has a death wish

 

[RichmondCommu]

Virgin a huge improvement on their predecessors? So British Rail? And you've just posted this here? Someone has a death wish

Oh don't worry, I'm more than capable of defending myself! I'm 46 and experienced the worst (and at times the best) of BR. Customer service is all about attitudes.

 

[LE Greys]

The amount of hatred shown towards Virgin Trains on this forum is almost pathological at times. Virgin are a huge improvement on their predecessors; quicker and safer trains and in my considerable experience excellent customer service. Not only that but I’ve yet to be inconvenienced by a delay that was directly attributable to Virgin Trains after many years of travelling up and down the WCML. I really don’t think that having flash looking trains, a recognizable brand and fantastic PR can be considered such a heinous crime. Not only that, but customers will always value a seat over a panoramic view of Coventry.

It's perhaps more accurate to say 'Virgin have overseen a huge improvement during their tenure as franchisee.'. Whatever you think of Pendys, they are faster and more frequent than their predecessors. Thing is, is that Virgin, Railtrack/Network Rail or the DfT? I honestly can't say. Who's to say, for instance, whether First could not have delivered the same improvement had they held the franchise.

As for what Virgin did directly in customer service, it's not necessarily better, merely different. The have done OK on some things, not so good on others. It was definitely their idea to have a shop on-board, so if you like that, they are better. On the other hand, they are the ones who specified the interior of Pendys and Voyagers (although I'm sure the ROSCO and the manufacturers had some involvement as well).

 

[RichmondCommu]

Who's to say, for instance, whether First could not have delivered the same improvement had they held the franchise.

Well that is very true but we are not in the position to be able compare the performance of Virgin against what First might have achieved. I would also agree that DfT have undoubtly aided Virgin but that would have been the same for anybody else that had held the franchise.

On the other hand, they are the ones who specified the interior of Pendys and Voyagers (although I'm sure the ROSCO and the manufacturers had some involvement as well).

I don't think anyone would argue that it's better to have a decent view rather than a seat. I would agree that luggage space could be improved but in order to maximise seats there had to be a compromise.

 

[ian959]

My own experiance with Virgin Trains has been exceptionally poor. Whenever I have travelled with them I have rarely been on time and I find the pendo's very uncomfortable (although I do not wish to open that debate on this thread). I also find that the train manager never apologises for delays but remains very quiet but if they are on time is full of the joys of spring on the PA.

They also seem to have one of the worst PPM's of all the TOC's.

But it seems that no matter how bad Virgin really are people will always view them in a positive light.

It is funny, but in my frequent returns to the UK, a large proportion of my journeys are with Virgin and I have never had a bad experience with them that could be laid at their feet. Most of the time it is factors over which they have no control. Sure they sometimes fail like all TOCs do but having traveled extensively on every TOC in the last six years, they are a long way away from being the worst TOC irrespective of what criteria are used.

And I find the Pendolinos quite decent trains. Like most a compromise due to conflicting factors but on the whole very good for purpose. I find them very comfortable and a pleasant way to get from London to Wolverhampton - the train journey I do far more than any other.

 

[shedman]

It's perhaps more accurate to say 'Virgin have overseen a huge improvement during their tenure as franchisee.'. Whatever you think of Pendys, they are faster and more frequent than their predecessors. Thing is, is that Virgin, Railtrack/Network Rail or the DfT? I honestly can't say. Who's to say, for instance, whether First could not have delivered the same improvement had they held the franchise.

As for what Virgin did directly in customer service, it's not necessarily better, merely different. The have done OK on some things, not so good on others. It was definitely their idea to have a shop on-board, so if you like that, they are better. On the other hand, they are the ones who specified the interior of Pendys and Voyagers (although I'm sure the ROSCO and the manufacturers had some involvement as well).

Fantastic post! In my eyes Virgin put their name to the good and blame anything bad on absolutely anyone! They are great at image and PR hence why they are so well loved. But isn't this the same Brandon who said he wouldn't bid for another franchise in the UK if he lost WC yet as soon as this little paddy he threw went in his favour Virgin announced they'd be bidding for EC?

 

[ivanhoe]

If the train turns up on time and connects well, that is usually a positive experience. That's why I never have a go at XC. Virgin post mark 3 had a fleet which was easy to market & reliable . That in my opinion is why they have been successful. They took a battering though pre pendo ! They must take the blame for that.

 

[Dave1987]

The amount of hatred shown towards Virgin Trains on this forum is almost pathological at times. Virgin are a huge improvement on their predecessors; quicker and safer trains and in my considerable experience excellent customer service. Not only that but I’ve yet to be inconvenienced by a delay that was directly attributable to Virgin Trains after many years of travelling up and down the WCML. I really don’t think that having flash looking trains, a recognizable brand and fantastic PR can be considered such a heinous crime. Not only that, but customers will always value a seat over a panoramic view of Coventry.

See thats how things have changed big style now, ppl do not want to look out of the window, and value power sockets and wifi much more than a view out of the window and I see that as a big shame. The last time I travelled on one I got an airline seat with no window. I felt very cramped and uncomfortable. The train manager was very vocal on the PA welcoming ppl on board, proudly claiming we are due into Euston on time etc. Then when we turned up 20 late at Euston, he was totally silent with no apology at all. It just frustrates me the way Virgin get away with being late as they say it is not their fault but other TOC's get heavy criticism for the same type of delays, how is that fair?