Boxing Day: Should there be scheduled trains?

[Urban Gateline]

Shops do not open on Christmas Day in, for example, the Netherlands or Germany yet they run a full Sunday service.

Yes but you fail to mention that in the aforementioned Countries they celebrate Christmas on what is our Xmas Eve (24th Dec). Therefore Xmas day is not such a special day in those countries so they run a few services.

The major reason for services not running is the need to do engineering work on the tracks as there is little other time in the year to do it, it seems efficient to have 2 full days in a row when our tracks can be maintained.

Another reason is cost, and this is always debated, even if there is enough demand for a Boxing day service, staff are not contracted to work that day so in order to run a service it will be very expensive as the need to offer incentives will come into place, so is it really worth it? My opinion is it's not worth it!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Yes, silly us (us being the general public). Fancy us expecting things to be convenient.....

It's hardly a "tradition". And even if it were just because something's a "tradition" it doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done away with.

Tell me why you're so special you should get Xmas off and every other person who does work doesn't?

Public services should be run for the benefit of the public, not for the the benefit of the employees.

I signed a contract, I fight for my rights, if people don't and get forced to work on those 2 days its there look out, sorry for having a strong union but never mind I am sure your contract is nice and robust that you have some rights left. :roll:

Joking and Sarcasm apart though When you sign a contract you know what to expect, my contract is robust like a lot of railwaypersons and yes some people will "expect" a 24/7 365 days a year service, however this is the real world and yes its a public service and to be blunt it would cost my employers a hell of a lot to make me work instead of seeing the joy on my kids faces at xmas or spending time with MY families at Xmas/Boxing Day, sorry guys but untill its worth my while you will not see me near a train for those 2 days of the year.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Public services should be run for the benefit of the public, not for the the benefit of the employees.

It's not a public service though is it, it's privately run by TOC's who (most) have shareholders to please! As I mentioned the cost of running a Boxing day service would be very expensive, so it's not just for the benefit of the employees that there's no Boxing day service!

 

[Bungle73]

I signed a contract, I fight for my rights, if people don't and get forced to work on those 2 days its there look out, sorry for having a strong union but never mind I am sure your contract is nice and robust that you have some rights left. :roll:

Ah, so it's only your "rights" that matter. And the railways should be run for the convenience of the employees and not the travelling public? I see.

The only argument that holds water is the engineering work one. Why railway workers expect to be taken seriously when they come out with the "I should have Xmas off to [insert reason here]" when there are plenty of other people who have to work I have no idea. I'm sure these same people would soon complain if they turned on their TV or radio and there was just static, or they went to have a bath and there was no hot water...or water at all.

 

[ainsworth74]

Can I remind everyone that this has the potential to be an emotive topic and as such you need to really think, hard, about what you're writing and how it might be interpreted before you post it.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I should have Xmas and boxing day off for 1 simple reason


Its in my contract

 

[merlodlliw]

I seriously question the need for shops to be open on boxing day, other than pure greed by the retailers.

Other than emergency services, it should be entirely a matter of personal choice whether somebody wishes to work Christmas Day or Boxing Day (or in the case of Scotland, New Year's Day).

shops have to pay business rates for Boxing day & in the case of big shops rental is charged for boxing day and a turnover over is required to keep staff in a job, pure greed is an amazing statement.

 

[Goatboy]

It's not a public service though is it, it's privately run by TOC's who (most) have shareholders to please!

It is a public service, which is why the industry as a whole is heavily taxpayer subsidised. Trouble is of course that public service provision and maxmising shareholder value are often mutually exclusive concepts.

Personally I would never use a train on boxing day therefore I don't care if they run. Thats what this thread is about, right? Making blanket statements based on our own personal wishes...?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Ah, so it's only your "rights" that matter. And the railways should be run for the convenience of the employees and not the travelling public? I see.

The only argument that holds water if the engineering work one. Why railway workers expect to be taken seriously when they come out with the "I should have Xmas off to [insert reason here]" when there are plenty of other people who have to work I have no idea. I'm sure these same people would soon complain if they turned on their TV or radio and there was just static, or they went to have a bath and there was no hot water...or water at all.

Tell me when you go for a job, you look at the conditions and your rights in the contract, you know what you sign up for, funny thats exactly what most people like myself do and to change that contract it will cost a lot, I knew I would have to be up at 2am some weeks, which I do painfully but gladly, I knew some days I wouldn't see my bed til 3/4am, I knew I would be spat on, assaulted verbally abused etc etc because thats what the job entails. and I also knew that I would be guaranteed 2 days off

 

[bluenoxid]

I should have Xmas and boxing day off for 1 simple reason


Its in my contract

Yeah, go for it. Just don't moan at me when you can't get thought to me doing my job on Christmas Day and Boxing Day because it's in my contract too

 

[Goatboy]

Tell me when you go for a job, you look at the conditions and your rights in the contract, you know what you sign up for, funny thats exactly what most people like myself do and to change that contract it will cost a lot, I knew I would have to be up at 2am some weeks, which I do painfully but gladly, I knew some days I wouldn't see my bed til 3/4am, I knew I would be spat on, assaulted verbally abused etc etc because thats what the job entails. and I also knew that I would be guaranteed 2 days off

Quite.

The 'railway staff want XYZ' argument is irrelevent - it doesnt matter if you are railway staff, shop staff, space rocket staff or whatever. If you've signed a paper contract of employment which specifically states you don't work day X or day Y then, well, without some sort of renegotiation of that contract then it really is as simple as that - you don't work day X or day Y and cannot legally be forced to.

 

[anthony263]

I should have Xmas and boxing day off for 1 simple reason


Its in my contract

If its in your contract then fair enough in my opinion.

Of course if there are trains running on boxing day you are well within your rights to work on that day if you want to.

Too be honest for those of us who dont have any children (Thank Heavens) then I dont really see any reason why we shouldnt work boxing day unless our contract states we dont have to work that day then the decision is ours to take.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Yeah, go for it. Just don't moan at me when you can't get thought to me doing my job on Christmas Day and Boxing Day because it's in my contract too

lol I would never do lol

 

[Beveridges]

Not everyone has Boxing Day off on the railway. Depot Drivers can work Boxing Day night shift 19:00-07:00 including getting the trains ready for the next day. Pay is doubled plus £175 and 12 hours annual leave added to the entitlement so you get paid over £800 for it so no complaints about working it!

 

[bluenoxid]

You also do know that there are other forms of transport and if the railways don't want to provide it, others can do but you will pay a premium for doing so. In fact, I don't see why the railways cannot charge a premium for operating services outside of what I guess is technically their contract.

 

[merlodlliw]

Tell me when you go for a job, you look at the conditions and your rights in the contract, you know what you sign up for, funny thats exactly what most people like myself do and to change that contract it will cost a lot, I knew I would have to be up at 2am some weeks, which I do painfully but gladly, I knew some days I wouldn't see my bed til 3/4am, I knew I would be spat on, assaulted verbally abused etc etc because thats what the job entails. and I also knew that I would be guaranteed 2 days off

So why are members of your trade union driving trains from Victoria to Brighton today, I ask this question as some are willing to work for the benefit of the customer,

 

[Tomonthetrain]

They could make only Anytime tickets available on Boxing Day

 

[merlodlliw]

It's not a public service though is it, it's privately run by TOC's who (most) have shareholders to please! As I mentioned the cost of running a Boxing day service would be very expensive, so it's not just for the benefit of the employees that there's no Boxing day service!

The Railways are a public service no matter who runs the trains.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

So why are members of your trade union driving trains from Victoria to Brighton today, I ask this question as some are willing to work for the benefit of the customer,

more like the benefit of their wage packet OR its not in their contract

if its beneficial money wise then good on them and they CHOOSE to, it has absolutely nothing to do with "the benefit of the customer" lol

 

[Tomnick]

So why are members of your trade union driving trains from Victoria to Brighton today, I ask this question as some are willing to work for the benefit of the customer,

The union's irrelevant really. If some folk are willing to volunteer to work Boxing Day, that's up to them - I'm sure they'll be well rewarded for it, so (as long as no-one's forced to do something that their contract doesn't require them to do) everyone's a winner.

 

[Monty]

It all comes down to cost, and currently their is little incentive for TOCs to put on a Christmas day or Boxing day service. All category A & B (London Waterloo for example) stations are required to be manned 24hours including the festive period for security reasons, however it's a graveyard shift with a skelleton crew and I imagine the staff concerned are being well compensated for their trouble. And there lies the problem, considering what it would cost to pay train crew just to get trains moving I highly doubt their is enough demand despite what others may say to make running a service viable. This is before we even consider the additional funds to get the other grades into work too.

End of the day our contracts state we are entitled to this day off, and unless a new contract is negotiated between the Unions and the TOCs the situation will continue. Personally i'd do it for triple time but not for a penny less.

A little thought to leave people with though, we are all human beings so what makes people think that people who work on the railways have any less of a right to be off from work over the festive season than the average person? I would understand if it was the only way that people had as a means getting to places like the Hospital, but to go shopping to places like DFS where you'll pay £500 for that £750 sofa when in reality it's cheap crap you don't need and only cost £50 produce by some poor child in India? Or to indulge your already spoilt children with that Xbox or Playstation deal that Currys may have?

Please.....:roll:

Besides most retailers start their 'sales' online on Christmas day..

 

[radamfi]

Yes but you fail to mention that in the aforementioned Countries they celebrate Christmas on what is our Xmas Eve (24th Dec). Therefore Xmas day is not such a special day in those countries so they run a few services.

But those places run a normal service on Christmas Eve! And they do pretty much close down everything except essential services on Christmas Day, like the UK. The only difference is that public transport is not considered an essential service in the UK.

 

[185]

Manchester Metrolink runs Sunday service 9am-9pm on Boxing Day.

 

[Mojo]

Many railway staff already have Boxing day in their contracts. The fact that a number of contracts have been created in the past 20 yrs with Boxing day already included as a working day suggests that the arguments about it not being in the contract are irrelevant. The status of a contract between employer and employee is irrelevant to most customers, as if the demand exists, the company would renegotiate such contracts with their employees.

 

[dk1]

Yes, silly us (us being the general public). Fancy us expecting things to be convenient.....

It's hardly a "tradition". And even if it were just because something's a "tradition" it doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done away with.

Tell me why you're so special you should get Xmas off and every other person who does work shouldn't?

Public services should be run for the benefit of the public, not for the the benefit of the employees.

Railways run for the covenience of the travelling public. That will never catch on

As an ex-BR employee whos contract did not include Christmas Or Boxing Day i would fight anything that changes that & would have to be dragged in kicking & screaming. I am though totally in favour of volunteer working for those that do wish to work. We have this now at my depot for drivers on Boxing day night shift .

 

[GB]

So why are members of your trade union driving trains from Victoria to Brighton today, I ask this question as some are willing to work for the benefit of the customer,

Do you think those staff would work if it was flat rate? If you think they are working it purely for the "benefit of the customers" I think your slightly deluded.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Many railway staff already have Boxing day in their contracts. The fact that a number of contracts have been created in the past 20 yrs with Boxing day already included as a working day suggests that the arguments about it not being in the contract are irrelevant. The status of a contract between employer and employee is irrelevant to most customers, as if the demand exists, the company would renegotiate such contracts with their employees.

True

but Northern certainly haven't negotiated (Yet)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do you think those staff would work if it was flat rate?

More chance Man City being at the top of the Premiership at New Year lol

 

[dk1]

Do you think those staff would work if it was flat rate? If you think they are working it purely for the "benefit of the customers" I think your slightly deluded.

Exactly. Has to be atleast double time & day in lieu.

 

[radamfi]

I would understand if it was the only way that people had as a means getting to places like the Hospital, but to go shopping to places like DFS where you'll pay £500 for that £750 sofa when in reality it's cheap crap you don't need and only cost £50 produce by some poor child in India? Or to indulge your already spoilt children with that Xbox or Playstation deal that Currys may have?

It has nothing to do with shopping! Shopping is only one reason why people travel. The main reason for travelling on Christmas Day and Boxing Day is to visit family and friends. Why do we run trains and buses at night when the shops are closed? Why do the Germans run trains on Sunday when there are very few shops open? Why run trains on Easter Sunday when there are no shops open?

 

[boing_uk]

Other than emergency services, it should be entirely a matter of personal choice whether somebody wishes to work Christmas Day or Boxing Day (or in the case of Scotland, New Year's Day).

So, utilities providers, air traffic control, HGV delivery drivers, local council officers (social workers, engineering, environmental health), AA, RAC, can have days off then as well? Not a chance; if you're rostered on, you're working.

To most professions, Christmas Day and Boxing Day are just normal days. I myself have been called out numerous times over the years in response to incidents on the highway.

However, while I agree that there should be at least *some* level of service, does it really need to be even a sunday service? Surely a mid-morning, evening and "last train" service would be enough on the major routes? Playing devils advocate of course, its also the best time for engineering works, so perhaps having two days without service is perhaps a good thing.