QE2 under threat of imminent scrapping

[Peter Mugridge]

May I draw to the attention of our marine minded members that it looks as if after 4 years QE2 is on the point of being towed away from Dubai, possibly for scrap in China ( though many rumours abound )?

I am not sure if I am allowed to post a link as it is another forum, although not a rival to this one, but just Googling "QE2 forum" or "The QE2 Story" should land you straight on it.

The story is being updated by the minute, so I can only attemp a brief summary, but in the last few days the 40 strong lay up crew have been sacked and replaced by a 20 strong Chinese standby crew and at least one ocean going tug has arrived alongside her in the last few hours; there are stories that a £20m offer to buy her for use as a floating hotel in Greenwich has fallen through at the last minute and an identical offer has been accepted from the Chinese.

But is it scrap? Nobody is sure, theories range from scrap to a floating casino in Macau to a Varyag > Liaoning style rebuild as a military cruiser.

 

[wintonian]

As someone born in and bred around Southampton this is indeed distressing, however such rumours have been floating around ever since she was sold to Dubai, though as you demonstrate they have never been put to resat despite assertions in the other direction.

Heres the story from The Southern Daily Echo

QE2 in potential £20m deal to be scrapped

The QE2, one of Southampton's most iconic cruise ships, could be set to be sold for scrap for £20m.

According to reports, the ship's owners in Dubai have accepted an offer from China to scrap the vessel.

That is despite British plans to take QE2 back to the UK, in the form of a luxury floating hotel on the River Thames.

Originally, Cunard sold the ship to Dubai World for it to be used as a 1,000 room hotel at the Palm Jumeirah, a collection of man-made islands in the shape of a palm tree.

However, the worldwide economic downturn put pay to those plans and the ship has since been moored at Port Rashid, with a cost of £650,000 a month to maintain her.

It has been claimed a Chinese crew of around 20 boarded the QE2 last week, replacing a crew of around 40 who had been working on board.

The move has prompted fears that a deal with scrap merchants in China has already been done.

The anchor of the QE2 has given by Cunard to Southampton as a gift to commerate the 40 years of service the ship enjoyed from her home port.

It is now on display outside Holy Rood church in the city's High Street.

 

[bb21]

One thing I am pretty sure about is that if taken to China, it won't be for scrap. They'll find a use somehow and accommodate her somewhere.

 

[wintonian]

One thing I am pretty sure about is that if taken to China, it won't be for scrap. They'll find a use somehow and accommodate her somewhere.

and keep it in recognition of the queens role as head of the Church of England whilst making a point about Antidisestablishmentarianism?

(sorry, but I have always wanted to find a use for that word)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Forum link question has been discussed with a moderator and approval given. It's the top few fast moving threads in here:

http://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/board,53.0.html

 

[ainsworth74]

One thing I am pretty sure about is that if taken to China, it won't be for scrap. They'll find a use somehow and accommodate her somewhere.

Well going on past history of acquisitions of vessels that supposedly had no further use it could end up being an aircraft carrier

But in all seriousness I have to agree with bb21. If China acquires the QE2 it won't be for scrap they'll do something with it. There are plenty of other countries who could scrap it and probably do it cheaper too for instance Alang in India has become the final resting place of a lot of ships and liners (such as the ex-SS France).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, it is difficult to see through the fog of rumour to deduce the correct fate; it may not be long before things become clearer, however, as at least one ocean going tug was reported alongside her this morning.

 

[34D]

Yes, it is difficult to see through the fog of rumour to deduce the correct fate; it may not be long before things become clearer, however, as at least one ocean going tug was reported alongside her this morning.

A very informative thread, Peter. Thank you for posting it.

 

[richw]

Read on a shipping forum earlier today, that their is a contract that she cant be scrapped for a minimum of 10 years after the sale from Cunard.
Another quoted a report from a media interview, that suggested she was being moved to Singapore to be a floating hotel.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There are, however, suggestions that the 10 clause could be varied by negotiation or even ignored outright!

At the moment the Singapore part of the rumours look most likely as there are three ocean going tugs now at Dubai, at least two of which are Singaporean and one of the trio was displaying "Singapore" as a destination on AIS for a while earlier, but that was removed from the AIS display in a hurry!

The best I can suggest to keep up to date is to keep watching the QE2 forum threads linked above; the story is fast moving and posts are being added quite rapidly.

 

[richw]

On a side note Eide Fighter with former P+O Pride of Dover in tow is circling off the beaches of Aliagia in Turkey, with big spring tides due tonight, so looks like its the end of Pride of Dover. Sister ship Pride of Calais has been given a reprieve with TEF ferries chartering her for Ramsgate to Ostend operations

 

[CC 72100]

On a side note Eide Fighter with former P+O Pride of Dover in tow is circling off the beaches of Aliagia in Turkey, with big spring tides due tonight, so looks like its the end of Pride of Dover. Sister ship Pride of Calais has been given a reprieve with TEF ferries chartering her for Ramsgate to Ostend operations

I'm quite surprised that the Calais has been given a reprieve. As I said on another forum, the Dover & Calais were almost too good, too suited to their job on the Dover strait that it made them unattractive to anyone else. Coupled with the Dover's poor condition, it's no wonder that Aliagia is it's destination and some of the amusing stories (such as joining the two together and having a double-ended mega ferry!) just turned out to be very wide of the mark.

 

[Matt Taylor]

It would be such a shame to see her end up like that, I used to see her regularly easing down The Solent from Southampton in years gone by and had the fortune to spend two weeks cruising the North Atlantic towards the end of her life and she was a magnificent piece of work.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40172673@N03/8317930730/in/photostream

 

[Murph]

Coupled with the Dover's poor condition, it's no wonder that Aliagia is it's destination and some of the amusing stories (such as joining the two together and having a double-ended mega ferry!) just turned out to be very wide of the mark.

Although it's basically unsurprising that complete scrapping does seem to be the outcome here, the whole chopping them apart then welding the 2 front bits back together isn't entirely unprecedented or crazy in shipbuilding, if the basic structure is still sound (it's likely that the poor condition is mostly in the equipment and fittings, rather than the structure itself, since she should have been well maintained over the years). Modern ships are often diesel-electric (exactly the same overall method/style as locos, sometimes even the same power units (e.g. Deltic, Valenta, VP185, etc)), and there are plenty of electric propulsion technologies which can be used for a ship with no stern and 2 bows, such as azi-pods, or the Voith Schneider omni-directional propeller.

 

[richw]

With Pride of Dover, I have heard from A+P Falmouth she was in very poor condition overall, and they were instructed on the final reset, just to make the public areas look ok, and ensure she could make it through final season.

 

[WillPS]

I was on either Dover or Calais last in 2004 - and even then it struck me as knackered!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Okay, so there's a petition now. I was really in two minds about signing this one. What swung it for me was the visuals of QE2 in London. It really should happen.

Here it is if you want this to happen too: https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/43821

 

[wintonian]

I was on either Dover or Calais last in 2004 - and even then it struck me as knackered!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Okay, so there's a petition now. I was really in two minds about signing this one. What swung it for me was the visuals of QE2 in London. It really should happen.

Here it is if you want this to happen too: https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/43821

I'm not really sure what HM government can do about it now other than debate the issue and perhaps file a protest with the relevant ambassador, which seems unlikely.

 

[Liam]

I was on either Dover or Calais last in 2004 - and even then it struck me as knackered!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Okay, so there's a petition now. I was really in two minds about signing this one. What swung it for me was the visuals of QE2 in London. It really should happen.

Here it is if you want this to happen too: https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/43821

I'm not really sure what it means by 'return her to London'.

Surely the only places she could 'return' to would be Clydebank (unlikely as her funnels and other mods would be needed to fit under the Erskine Bridge), Southampton or New York? These are the only 3 places that, in my opinion, the MS Queen Elizabeth 2 could rightly call home.

I think she should be saved at all costs. As the petition says, the most famous ship in the world, iconic. It would be an absolute travesty to see her scrapped. I remember seeing her visiting the Forth many times, most notably when she moored off the coast of Anstruther during the 2000 Open Championship at St Andrews.

 

[kylemore]

I'm not really sure what it means by 'return her to London'.

Surely the only places she could 'return' to would be Clydebank (unlikely as her funnels and other mods would be needed to fit under the Erskine Bridge),

.

I'm sure she would fit under Erskine Bridge no problem as the bridge was designed and built when large sea going vessels still required access to Glasgow harbour and the ship building industry was still influential. Indeed large vessels still transit up as far as KGV Dock.

She could be returned to the fitting out dock at Clydebank where the huge Hammerhead crane that was used in her construction is now a "heritage" attraction.

Whether the economics would work out as easily is another matter!

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm sure she would fit under Erskine Bridge no problem as the bridge was designed and built when large sea going vessels still required access to Glasgow harbour and the ship building industry was still influential. Indeed large vessels still transit up as far as KGV Dock.

I seem to recall that she was unable to visit Clydebank properly on her farewell tour of the UK because she couldn't fit under the bridge.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That's correct - she won't fit under Erskine Bridge at high tide, and she can't go under it at low tide because she requires a high tide to navigate that part of the Clyde!

Word is that we are just days away from the sale to China being signed, just days to persuade Dubai to sell to the London project instead. the offer price is apparently identical, it's just that with China there is ready cash on the table.

 

[LE Greys]

That's correct - she won't fit under Erskine Bridge at high tide, and she can't go under it at low tide because she requires a high tide to navigate that part of the Clyde!

Word is that we are just days away from the sale to China being signed, just days to persuade Dubai to sell to the London project instead. the offer price is apparently identical, it's just that with China there is ready cash on the table.

This is where my godfather would tell the story of a large section of drilling rig that they designed to fit under the Erskine Bridge. It would have done so fine, had they remembered to add four feet for the barge . . .

Still, to be a bit more serious, I have to say I am concerned. I never saw the QE2 when she was in service, and I'd like the chance to do so one day. She was one of the Clyde's last big projects, and an important piece of our history as such. However, money talks, so I'm not hopeful.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

A bridgecam picture from another ship in the last couple of days has revealed what seems to be a large logo painted onto QE2's funnel; if this is the case that could well indicate that the Chinese deal doesn't involve imminent scrapping; after all would you bother to put a big logo on if you were only going to run her onto a beach?

( Yes, I am aware that BR often re-painted signalboxes immediately before closure; I am assuming that the rest of the planet has more sense! )

 

[kylemore]

That's correct - she won't fit under Erskine Bridge at high tide, and she can't go under it at low tide because she requires a high tide to navigate that part of the Clyde!

Word is that we are just days away from the sale to China being signed, just days to persuade Dubai to sell to the London project instead. the offer price is apparently identical, it's just that with China there is ready cash on the table.

Ok so we'd have to temporarily cut a couple of metres off the mast and funnel to get her under, it's not a big deal and is not a reason for the project not going ahead. As I said the economics of it are the problem.

 

[Monty]

I hate to be the real cynic of the group but really I see the QE2 setting sail for that big shipyard in the sky unless the Chinese are serious about doing anything else with her. We as a country have done very little in preserving our naval history compared to other nations. I can think of quite a few vessels that should have been saved but are alas now razor blades (HMS Warspite 03 & HMS invincible). It will be a damn shame if they let the QE2 suffer the same fate.

 

[LE Greys]

I hate to be the real cynic of the group but really I see the QE2 setting sail for that big shipyard in the sky unless the Chinese are serious about doing anything else with her. We as a country have done very little in preserving our naval history compared to other nations. I can think of quite a few vessels that should have been saved but are alas now razor blades (HMS Warspite 03 & HMS invincible). It will be a damn shame if they let the QE2 suffer the same fate.

HMS Hermes is still going strong as INS Viraat. When the Indians have finished with her, I really hope the Royal Navy buy her back and return her to Portsmouth. She was the flagship of the Falklands Task Force after all, and she'd make an excellent third ship for Portsmouth, berthed just opposite the Victory. There's probably not much hope, but it would be worth it.

 

[Monty]

HMS Hermes is still going strong as INS Viraat. When the Indians have finished with her, I really hope the Royal Navy buy her back and return her to Portsmouth. She was the flagship of the Falklands Task Force after all, and she'd make an excellent third ship for Portsmouth, berthed just opposite the Victory. There's probably not much hope, but it would be worth it.

There was talk of the Indian Navy turning her into a Museum when she is finally retired, however they already have the INS Vikrant, a carrier of a similiar vintage to Hermes for a floating museum and they seem to have a hard enough time looking after her. I don't see us buying her either considering budgetary constraints MOD and the treasury is experiencing at the moment. No unless a private individual buys her or she is donated by India she'll be for the knackers yard too.

Which is a shame since she and Vikrant are the last of the British WW2 era carriers.

 

[junglejames]

But in all seriousness I have to agree with bb21. If China acquires the QE2 it won't be for scrap they'll do something with it. There are plenty of other countries who could scrap it and probably do it cheaper too for instance Alang in India has become the final resting place of a lot of ships and liners (such as the ex-SS France).

Actually, China is a very large and well known ship breaker now. Alang may offer more money for the vessel, but you only send it to Alang if you dont care how the ship goes. If you care about the image of your company, Alang is no longer the destination of choice, as it is environmentally very unsound. China scrap ships in an environmentally sound fashion.
The Saga Rose (i think it was) made a one way trip to China for scrap.

However, no it may not be for scrap if it goes to China. China has a history of ending ships in other ways. See the original Queen Elizabeth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ok so we'd have to temporarily cut a couple of metres off the mast and funnel to get her under, it's not a big deal and is not a reason for the project not going ahead. As I said the economics of it are the problem.

No cutting required, because she wouldnt be going to the Clyde. London makes the most sense, and that is the only other bid on the table.

 

[Yew]

I hate to be the real cynic of the group but really I see the QE2 setting sail for that big shipyard in the sky unless the Chinese are serious about doing anything else with her. We as a country have done very little in preserving our naval history compared to other nations. I can think of quite a few vessels that should have been saved but are alas now razor blades (HMS Warspite 03 & HMS invincible). It will be a damn shame if they let the QE2 suffer the same fate.

Dont forget the failed attempt at the Vanguard, And maybe we can get the Vir\at back from india when it is retured, Under the name HMS Hermes

 

[kylemore]

No cutting required, because she wouldnt be going to the Clyde. .

I don't doubt it. But I don't think she'll be seen this side of Suez anytime soon either!