Why do some people begrudge showing their ticket?

[island]

Barriers cannot be a substitute for on-train checks. They should only be used as something to aid revenue protection. Shame that the DfT don't seem to realise that.

I don't think such a setting would work. What if the gates are open at the origin station or if the passenger is using split tickets?

The ticket would be rejected with a Seek Assistance, and the barrier attendant would let the passenger through with a sigh of "these bloody gates".

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Theres a great scene in this film, at about 0.02.15 - its clearly not a new issue for passengers!

Hadn't heard of "The Ghost Train." I watched the whole film - thanks for that link!

 

[Starmill]

That's not a solution.

Barriers only and no on-train checks means doughnutting heaven.

Is that a "used term"... I've never heard it before, but if so... I LOVE it!

 

[jon0844]

Also known as dumbelling.

 

[Flamingo]

It's taking split ticketing to the next stage...

 

[rdwarr]

No ID card, no ticket. Simple from me, otherwise you can see my ticket without any hassle at all.

Wouldn't it be quicker just to show them your ticket without going through the ID verification process? What's the worst that could happen?

 

[D2022]

Wouldn't it be quicker just to show them your ticket without going through the ID verification process? What's the worst that could happen?

You could end up with the fake RPI who was travelling about the Wessex line....he was on for about 3 weeks before someone sussed him out. He even checked my tickets a couple times before it dawned on me he was wearing a tie that had a BR double arrow on it that you could see if he left his jacket open.

He wasn't even employed by First and the train crews seemed unaware of him! So the worst that could happen is him lol

 

[bb21]

Wouldn't it be quicker just to show them your ticket without going through the ID verification process? What's the worst that could happen?

Where there is authority, there is resistance. Some people take that seriously, whilst others consider it not worth wasting their time on.

 

[BrownE]

Wouldn't it be quicker just to show them your ticket without going through the ID verification process? What's the worst that could happen?

[Edit]Wouldn't is be quicker for staff just to wear their name badge and ID card as they are meant to when they work?[/EDIT]

Only if it meets some categories that take milliseconds to work out:

Namebadge? --Yes-> Ticket
Namebadge? --No-> ID Card? --Yes-> Ticket
Namebadge? --No-> ID Card? --No-> No ticket without an ID Card

Someone who is clearly not the TM and the TM didn't announce Revenue were on board --> Go to ID Card?.

The worst that can happen, someone who doesn't have their authorised collector card (but is (in this case) an authorised collector) tries to give me a PF again (yes, that happened once, which for reference is contrary to rule 5 of PFs, yes it was reported).

 

[34D]

We get a lot of that "my ticket's at the bottom of my bag" on our barriers and people with 1st class singles / returns seem very reluctant to put their ticket through the barrier, they want to be let out by staff rather than do it themselves. You will also find that Gold Card holders tend to tailgate through wide gates by putting their hand on the sensor because it's too much hassle to simply take their ticket out of the wallet - it's the suits that tend to be very arrogant if challenged for tailgating or if asked to put their ticket in the barrier.

I find it really annoying when staff just wave people through an open barrier. Everyone should be made to put their ticket through, in my opinion. If nothing else, the gates may catch fraud that the staff miss.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Why should I put my ticket through a machine which half the time rejects it because I had the cheek to have it discounted?

 

[34D]

Why should I put my ticket through a machine which half the time rejects it because I had the cheek to have it discounted?

So a process can be followed, which is machine rejects ticket with error code 55 (or whichever code it is) which then prompts staff to check your railcard.

 

[AndyLandy]

So a process can be followed, which is machine rejects ticket with error code 55 (or whichever code it is) which then prompts staff to check your railcard.

Or, knowing this will happen, I can save everyone time and go straight to the manned gate.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Or, knowing this will happen, I can save everyone time and go straight to the manned gate.

My thinking exactly

 

[Dennis C]

I really do not understand why some people huff and puff so much when asked too produce a ticket on a train. I'm always polite when asking for tickets but am greeted with grunts. Or people that have the ticket in their wallet (not ticket wallet)so the majority of the ticket is obstructed by the leather but they only slide out the edge of the ticket. So the destinations and expiry date cannot be seen. When asked to take the ticket out of the wallet so it can be read you would think that I had just asked them to go and clean the train toilet from their reaction!

The attitude seems to be " You can see I have a piece of orange card, what more do you want?"

What I can say to add to this thread is that until yesterday on my day out, the guards on the Liverpool St.- Norwich service have always been friendly and polite, but it only takes one sarcastic loud mouthed moron (guard based at Ipswich) to ruin all the good will that has been built up.

 

[Flamingo]

What I can say to add to this thread is that until yesterday on my day out, the guards on the Liverpool St.- Norwich service have always been friendly and polite, but it only takes one sarcastic loud mouthed moron (guard based at Ipswich) to ruin all the good will that has been built up.

Take out "Guard" in the above post and insert "Passenger", and you have an explination as to why some of my colleagues may not be the cheery souls we are always expected to be!

 

[jbb]

I sometimes get irritated.
I commute on virgn trains, and coming home I just want to go to sleep after a long day quite a lot of the time. But we get an announcement 5 minutes after the train leaves saying where we are going, then 5 minutes later one for the shop, then later on the check the tickets, and it takes several minutes from them entering the carriage to actually checking my ticket on occasion. Then on top sometimes extra announcements or someone with a trolley trying to sell drinks.

I don't mind showing my ticket as such, but it's just the last straw sometimes when i just want to be left quiet. I'm always polite though

 

[rdwarr]

If you're the sort of person whose perception of staff in general is influenced by the exceptional behaviour of one, then you must understand that some staff may regard passengers in the same light.

 

[Goatboy]

Staff should not be rude to customers - period. There is no excuse. It doesn't matter how rude the customer is, it doesn't matter how unreasonable the customer is and it doesn't matter how difficult the day is - staff should not be rude to customers.

This is the same for any customer facing role - and I'm sure we've almost all had a customer facing role at some point. You are a professional and part of being a professional is your attitude. If you don't have the right attitude, or you find it difficult to maintain the right attitude whatever the job throws at you, you are in the wrong line of work and should find something non customer facing.

****head customers are something you sound off about to your colleagues once you are behind private, locked doors and not before.

Everyone makes mistakes at work - and from time to time, attitude will be one of these mistakes - but it should be treated like any other mistake, most of which will involve some sort of discussion because you can't make constant mistakes without it being picked up.

 

[34D]

Or, knowing this will happen, I can save everyone time and go straight to the manned gate.

And how do you propose that the staff understand the error code, or will you be putting a sticky label on your forehead to help them?

 

[AndyLandy]

And how do you propose that the staff understand the error code, or will you be putting a sticky label on your forehead to help them?

Simple. We'll do without error codes. I'll present my ticket to the barrier staff and they will validate it, since people are much better at that than machines anyway.

Ticket gates simply are not a substitute for trained staff. Rail ticketing is far too complex to trust a machine with anything other than the simplest of tickets. I can see why they're used on busy suburban commuter services, but they're no silver bullet.

If you really think that staff aren't capable of validating tickets by sight, give them a ticket reader at the manual gates, but I suspect most wouldn't require it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Staff should not be rude to customers - period. There is no excuse. It doesn't matter how rude the customer is, it doesn't matter how unreasonable the customer is and it doesn't matter how difficult the day is - staff should not be rude to customers.

---snip---

Everyone makes mistakes at work - and from time to time, attitude will be one of these mistakes - but it should be treated like any other mistake, most of which will involve some sort of discussion because you can't make constant mistakes without it being picked up.

I feel those two paragraphs are at odds with one another. I'm very inclined to agree with the latter one. Mistakes should be judged on the specific incident, and considering past performance and other factors. You may well consider an attitude-related failure to be highly severe, but I'd be reluctant to ever make a sweeping statement of "zero tolerance" to it.

 

[Goatboy]

I feel those two paragraphs are at odds with one another. I'm very inclined to agree with the latter one. Mistakes should be judged on the specific incident, and considering past performance and other factors. You may well consider an attitude-related failure to be highly severe, but I'd be reluctant to ever make a sweeping statement of "zero tolerance" to it.

I dont think they are at odds at all. The first paragraph explains how you should never be rude to a customer, no matter what. This therefore implies that being rude to a customer is a mistake/error, in the same way that, I dunno, not cashing a till up properly or forgetting to sign something off or any of the other myriad of things you can get wrong at work would be a mistake.

The second paragraph then explains that people DO make mistakes, but they should be dealt with appropriately.

 

[AndyLandy]

I dont think they are at odds at all. The first paragraph explains how you should never be rude to a customer, no matter what. This therefore implies that being rude to a customer is a mistake/error, in the same way that, I dunno, not cashing a till up properly or forgetting to sign something off or any of the other myriad of things you can get wrong at work would be a mistake.

The second paragraph then explains that people DO make mistakes, but they should be dealt with appropriately.

Gotcha. I see the point you are making. I think we're probably in agreement then. People shouldn't make these mistakes, but as and when they do, appropriate procedure should be followed, and the greater picture needs to be considered.

 

[Dennis C]

Mistakes should be judged on the specific incident

Do you know if it was a one off specific incident or one of many? No? nor do I.

 

[AndyLandy]

Do you know it was a specific incident? No, nor do I.

All incidents are "specific", in that they are unique. I simply believe that any case of this nature should be judged by considering all the surrounding factors, rather than making sweeping claims like "zero tolerance". Just my opinion

 

[Harbon 1]

I once had my tickets checked, got chatting to the guard, and he lent me his copy of railways illustrated for the rest of the journey

 

[Flamingo]

Going off thread for a moment, it wasn't until I started working on the railway that I realised there are so many rude and unreasonable people out there, who think the world owes them a living, think they know all their rights, but will not accept that they have any responsibilities (be that only occupying one seat on busy trains, keeping to the T&C they accepted when deciding to travel and buy that ticket, or indeed, showing their ticket when asked to in a calm and reasonable manner).

However, they are not the majority - it's just that they are thee ones who seem to shout loudest. Some people confuse good customer service with pandering to these individuals, not maximising the service to those customers who either need assistance and aid, and/or are prepared to behave in a reasonable manner.

I will not risk giving poor customer service to those who are following the rules and are well behaved by pandering to somebody with unresolved childhood issues (who incidently, in my experience, has certainly not paid more than everybody else around them).

 

[Dennis C]

Going off thread for a moment, it wasn't until I started working on the railway that I realised there are so many rude and unreasonable people out there, who think the world owes them a living, think they know all their rights, but will not accept that they have any responsibilities.

I must have led a sheltered existence.

I can't disagree with the first part, but to cool things down, we ALL should set an example of good manners when we meet face to face, it isn't that hard.

Posting on forums when annoyed can lead to misunderstanding, that's what the moderators are here for, but in real life it's a lot easier to talk and listen.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Staff should not be rude to customers - period. There is no excuse. It doesn't matter how rude the customer is, it doesn't matter how unreasonable the customer is and it doesn't matter how difficult the day is - staff should not be rude to customers.

I don't agree, frontline staff are not there to take abuse from anyone.

I go by the theory of treating people how they treat me, ask a sharp question without manners and you'll get a sharp answer off me, albeit polite but blunt. (e.g. someone comes up to me and just says "Wimbledon?" and I reply with "Platform 11")

Shouting/Abusive language/Patronising tone will be met with polite refusal to deal with the person and calling security staff to assist if it continues.

However my approach is to deal with every person as an individual, I do not let someone else who I dealt with earlier affect how I deal with others.

 

[Goatboy]

I don't agree, frontline staff are not there to take abuse from anyone.

You don't agree? You think it's acceptable to be rude to customers in some circumstances?

I go by the theory of treating people how they treat me

But you are a customer facing member of staff - you should go by the theory of being polite to customers. Some of them are absolute morons - some of them are foul mouthed and I agree it's unacceptable quite how awful some of them are. But this doesn't excuse being rude to them. Sadly, even though it shouldn't be, dealing with rude muppets is part of any customer facing job. I did many years in retail, it can be very difficult to remain polite when some idiot is convinced he knows everything and you are wrong, but it's what the job is.

You should treat people how you'd want to be treated, not how they treat you. You represent your organisation when at work, after all.

Shouting/Abusive language/Patronising tone will be met with polite refusal to deal with the person and calling security staff to assist if it continues.

Which is completely acceptable and not the same as being rude. Nobody should have to put up with abuse, but being rude back just makes you as bad. Be the better person.