Municipal operators in 2013 - how many?

[robertclark125]

It's that time of year again, when I detail which municipal operators have survived the end of another year, and consider how many, if any, will still be in local authority ownership at the end of the next year.

For the record, the 11 remaining municipals are

SCOTLAND - Lothian Buses

WALES - Newport transport; Bws Caerdydd/Cardiff Bus

ENGLAND - Halton Transport; Network warrington, Rossendale Transport, Nottingham City Transport, Blackpool Transport, Ipswich Buses, Reading Buses, Thamesdown.

So that's the eleven, but how many will survive until end of 2013. I would say 10 of them, the only one possibly at risk is Ipswich. Although it has a loyal following despite the pressure First is putting on it, the Go Ahead Group has been making gains in Anglia with the purchases of Konectbus, Hedingham, and Anglian Buses, and Ipswich would be a good fit.

I think the others are fairly safe, although one friend on facebook heard rumours, subsequently denied, that Stagecoach were looking to buy Halton.

Anyway, I think Ipswich is most likely to go, but the others are safe, meaning we should be in double figures this time next year.

Anyone else got thoughts?

 

[ivanhoe]

Most Councils are going to suffer more rounds of cuts and selling off Stand Alone Bus Companies may give them cash needed to balance books. That's my fear for some of them. Hope I'm wrong

 

[PR1Berske]

Local councils should not be wasting money on public transport. I hope all of them are sold off by the end of 2013.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Local councils should not be wasting money on public transport. I hope all of them are sold off by the end of 2013.

Coming from somebody who wants a local authority to spend £23million repairing and refurbishing a bus station...

You're also obviously unaware that a municipal bus company must be run at arms length and as such is not dependent on public funds being diverted from a council budget. It's essentially a private company that the council happens to own shares in.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

There's a rumour going round that Kent County Council might close their operations down and Eastonways may take over their Thanet services

 

[tbone]

Kent Top Travel has already announced that it will close down

 

[317 forever]

In a way the sale of a municipal bus company seems overdue. These resumed at the end of 2005 after many years, but we have not had any sold since Islywn to Stagecoach at the start of 2010.

Go-Ahead have stated that they want to increase their turnover partly through acquistions, so this list could provide them with some to start with. As they are growing in the south and east Anglia, Reading, Thamesdown and Ipswich would be good starts. They nearly acquired a 49% stake in Ipswich a few years ago.

 

[robertclark125]

Reading is very unlikely to be sold. The main political parties on the council have all stated that they're happy to retain it in council ownership. I'd say the same about Lothian Buses, what complicates it there is that Edinburgh only owns about 85% of it, the other three councils making up the former Lothian Regional Council area, East Lothian, Midlothian, and West Lothian, each own a 5% stake. So, any sale would need their approval as well.

Thamesdown, in Swindon, is often forgotten, but I reckon the council is happy to retain it. It has a good working relationship with Stagecoach, and has a modern fleet.

As it stands, I'd still say Ipswich is likely to be the one to go private.

 

[WestCoast]

After the tramway renewals and investment, I'd say Blackpool Transport will continue to be safe for some years yet. It's also reported that the bus division has returned to good financial health after cutbacks made in the previous two years. The service fleet is almost 100% low floor now, quite an achievement considering the number of high floor vehicles present just a couple of years ago.

Local councils should not be wasting money on public transport. I hope all of them are sold off by the end of 2013.

I guess by that token they shouldn't bother maintaining public transport infrastructure then, such as bus shelters or indeed oversized bus stations! As explained to you earlier, municipal operators are expected to pay their way they're not just bottomless pits for council funds!

 

[90019]

I'd say the same about Lothian Buses, what complicates it there is that Edinburgh only owns about 85% of it, the other three councils making up the former Lothian Regional Council area, East Lothian, Midlothian, and West Lothian, each own a 5% stake. So, any sale would need their approval as well.

It's not quite that equal between the other three councils. I can't remember the exact figures, but I think it's West Lothian that only holds about a 2% stake, Midlothian that has the biggest stake in the company after Edinburgh, with East Lothian somewhere in the middle.

 

[317 forever]

After the tramway renewals and investment, I'd say Blackpool Transport will continue to be safe for some years yet. It's also reported that the bus division has returned to good financial health after cutbacks made in the previous two years. The service fleet is almost 100% low floor now, quite an achievement considering the number of high floor vehicles present just a couple of years ago.

Indeed, it is encouraging how much Blackpool have updated their bus fleet recently. Admittedly they have had an influx of 10-11 year-old double-deckers from Isle of Man. So, Blackpool's fleet could still have a higher than average age as a result.

 

[PR1Berske]

It's more logical, and more economically sound, for local authorities to spend money on infrastructure. As can be clearly seen by the lack of services quoted in the OP, having such council funded transport is an out-dated idea.

Transport authorities have a responsibility to provide a bus station/depot, and that's right.

 

[WestCoast]

It's more logical, and more economically sound, for local authorities to spend money on infrastructure. As can be clearly seen by the lack of services quoted in the OP, having such council funded transport is an out-dated idea.

What makes you say its more economically sound? What financial return do councils get from installing infrastructural facilities such as bus shelters and having to maintain them when windows are smashed e.t.c? They do as a public service but....

Your argument ignores the fact that municipals in most cases are arms-length private firms (e.g. Blackpool Transport Ltd and Lothian Buses plc) which actually generate profits from fare revenues after costs have been covered. In the vast majority of cases, these profits are reinvested in the fleet rather than ending up in share holders pockets. They're essentially not-for-profit businesses intended to serve the community without massive investment from council funds.

It also ignores the fact that many councils, county councils and/or PTEs have to subsidise or completely fund bus routes that aren't seen as viable by private operators. In Blackpool's case, as it's a unitary authority, that would mean quite a lot of subsidies from the council!

It's only "out-dated" in a UK context. Very few developed countries have complete bus deregulation like the UK, I believe New Zealand is perhaps the only comparable example. Big transport groups were keen to gobble up municipals and independent operators and groups such as Stagecoach employed dirty tricks to get their own way when municipals and large independents weren't willingly sold them in the '80s and '90s. Only the the strongest and least attractive have survived.

Add to that, several of the UK's remaining municipal operators are highly regarded by those in the industry and by passengers, it would be a great shame for both users and the industry to lose them to faceless national groups like First that don't care about the needs of the community.

 

[gazthomas]

It's that time of year again, when I detail which municipal operators have survived the end of another year, and consider how many, if any, will still be in local authority ownership at the end of the next year.

For the record, the 11 remaining municipals are

SCOTLAND - Lothian Buses

WALES - Newport transport; Bws Caerdydd/Cardiff Bus

ENGLAND - Halton Transport; Network warrington, Rossendale Transport, Nottingham City Transport, Blackpool Transport, Ipswich Buses, Reading Buses, Thamesdown.

So that's the eleven, but how many will survive until end of 2013. I would say 10 of them, the only one possibly at risk is Ipswich. Although it has a loyal following despite the pressure First is putting on it, the Go Ahead Group has been making gains in Anglia with the purchases of Konectbus, Hedingham, and Anglian Buses, and Ipswich would be a good fit.

I think the others are fairly safe, although one friend on facebook heard rumours, subsequently denied, that Stagecoach were looking to buy Halton.

Anyway, I think Ipswich is most likely to go, but the others are safe, meaning we should be in double figures this time next year.

Anyone else got thoughts?

Does Uno qualify as a municipal?

 

[gswindale]

Transport authorities have a responsibility to provide a bus station/depot, and that's right.

Can you clarify this point for me please?

Should an authority provide a bus station which benefits passengers on all services or just a depot that only benefits the operator of choice?

In Reading we have no proper bus station as such. Does not cause to many problems. The only issue that I can see is that only Reading Bus departures are shown at bus stops.

 

[robertclark125]

No, UNO is owned by a university, and universities are no longer under local government control.

 

[ian1944]

It's not that long ago that Lothian Buses was seen as vulnerable in whole or part to First, which seems ridiculous now given the former's up-to-date fleet and high regard and the latter's local closure at Dalkeith, relative shabbiness and anything but high regard.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

. I would say 10 of them, the only one possibly at risk is Ipswich. .

?

In the May 2011 local elections the local labour party was elected with a manifesto that declared they would not sell off Ipswich Buses.
I think there was something similar in Rossendale.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Blackpool buses should go to Rotala to become a joint operation with Preston Bus. Then it would be a lot easier to strengthen buses for one major settlement but maybe at the expense at another. Also it would allow services to be inter worked and merged and the prospect of new services coming up with more places to run to.

 

[Deerfold]

Can you clarify this point for me please?

Should an authority provide a bus station which benefits passengers on all services or just a depot that only benefits the operator of choice?

In Reading we have no proper bus station as such. Does not cause to many problems. The only issue that I can see is that only Reading Bus departures are shown at bus stops.

In most areas outside PTEs it's up to the operators to provide information at bus stops.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Local councils should not be wasting money on public transport. I hope all of them are sold off by the end of 2013.

I agree they shouldn't waste money on it. I don't agree that means they should be sold. Folling the sale of a municipal there's usually either a large increase in subsidies to private companies to run uneconomic routes and/or an increase in people with little or no public transport available.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In the May 2011 local elections the local labour party was elected with a manifesto that declared they would not sell off Ipswich Buses.
I think there was something similar in Rossendale.

They declared they wouldn't sell Ipswich buses too?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

They declared they wouldn't sell Ipswich buses too?

You never know with Rottie folk

 

[mbonwick]

Blackpool buses should go to Rotala to become a joint operation with Preston Bus. Then it would be a lot easier to strengthen buses for one major settlement but maybe at the expense at another. Also it would allow services to be inter worked and merged and the prospect of new services coming up with more places to run to.

I just can't see this happening personally, and I can't see what benefits it would bring.
Rotala aren't in the best position financially, so its doubtful they could afford Blackpool Transport (BT) anyway.
Even if they did sucessfully buy it, how would that help services in either place?
Currently PB do not operate any commercial services outside of Preston - their journies on 68, 113 etc are all tendered by LCC.

Flipping it round, you seem to be suggesting that PBs fleet isn't up to your expectations. Given that their oldest vehicles, including the Lynx, are only for schools, their service fleet is actually quite modern

 

[Sandy Drew]

Of the 4 remaining North West municipal operators, only Blackpool Transport Services made a pre-tax profit in the last financial year. Around £1m according to DueDil financials.

So agree with Michael, a sale would be unlikely given the healthy financials.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

I just can't see this happening personally, and I can't see what benefits it would bring.
Rotala aren't in the best position financially, so its doubtful they could afford Blackpool Transport (BT) anyway.
Even if they did sucessfully buy it, how would that help services in either place?
Currently PB do not operate any commercial services outside of Preston - their journies on 68, 113 etc are all tendered by LCC.

Flipping it round, you seem to be suggesting that PBs fleet isn't up to your expectations. Given that their oldest vehicles, including the Lynx, are only for schools, their service fleet is actually quite modern

I see your point, and agree with it. I do think pb's fleet are up to expectations I commute on the lynx!
It would be nice though, especially to see an all shacks Blackpool service via Fishergate, Riversway, and Savick though! Much needed!