Best Ever Southern Region EMU

[33011]

From the start of electrification to the present day which do you think was the best type of EMU to run on Southern Region metals? For me it has to be the 4 REP. For those that do not know the 4 REP were a small fleet of 15 3200hp slam door units built for the Waterloo to Weymouth line hauling or prepelleng one or two four car unpowered 4 TC units between Waterloo and Bournemouth where the Class 33/1 would take the 4 TC's over the then non electrified section between Bournemouth and Weymouth. The line was electrified only as far as Branksome in those days so the REP's could get to the depot. It was also possible to Haulage a REP by sitting in a TC unit.The REP's also had a restaurant car each named.The name was desplayed behind the bar. It has been known for REP's to shift failed freight trains to clear a blocked line whilst still hauling it's own train. The REP's were replaced by the class 442's but the sound of the REP's can still be heard today due to their traction motors being donated to the 442's.

 

[RichJF]

I have a soft spot for the 4-Cig (421). Mainly because it was the main unit when I used the train to get to secondary school.
It had the padded bouncy seats and the layout was good as well.

The 4-Cig and 4-Big coupled together on the Brighton service was a winner.

The great thing I like about the Cigs & Veps were you could find one on a local or an express and you didn't feel like either were out of place, and I think they suited the Central region.

 

[HSTEd]

Has to be 5WES for myself.

The last example of Southern Region frugality and by far the best unit by interior environment.

 

[33011]

Has to be 5WES for myself.

The last example of Southern Region frugality and by far the best unit by interior environment.

Yeah but you'd need 2 of them to equal a REP

 

[bronzeonion]

Since I cannot remember slammers apart from 1497/1498 on Lymingtons, well I know 1498 quite well now but I'm going to have to say Class 375/6 or 375/7!

 

[Monty]

I have a soft spot for the 4-CEPs and 4-CIGs as I regularly travelled on them to school and college.

 

[317666]

I don't recall ever travelling on slammers (although I did see a few at London Bridge as a kid), so I'm going to say the Class 313, as some are now operating with Southern. If that isn't Southern Region enough, then Class 508!

 

[John55]

Although not what the OP wanted to hear I don't think there is any doubt that the finest EMUs to run on "Southern Metals" were the almost luxurious former LNWR Oerlikon suburban EMUs which ran to Kew Bridge and Richmond between 1916 and the late 1950s/early 1960s.

In comparison all Southern EMUs with very, very few exceptions were cheap and nasty. The cheap and nasty is a result of the policy of the LSWR and Southern Railway and was deliberate. BR seemed happy to continue with this policy as the 4-REPs for example were in large part standard Mk 1 coaches.

 

[Aictos]

I think the ability of the Southern EMUs to couple up to any loco and use a standard coupling was a point sorely missed out by the industry when building trains in the 70s, 80s, 90s and today.

The 4 REP/ 4 TC and Class 33 format seem a excellent idea and indeed it could have been used as a alternative to bimode trains - by that I mean use the wires as far as possible then have a diesel drag the train all the way to its final destination but with the train being of Inter City interior.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Anything other than a Mk 1 'Slammer'. I had a very bad experience with those! I'm very happy with the units that serve Richmond, reliability tends to be very good.

 

[Wath Yard]

Class 442s. Travelled many thousands of miles on them and it was a joy to have a bit of InterCity quality on the NSE. It was a sad day when SWT dumped them for 444s.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Class 442s. Travelled many thousands of miles on them and it was a joy to have a bit of InterCity quality on the NSE. It was a sad day when SWT dumped them for 444s.

Yeah I'd agree with that but I don't understand why they are now used Gatwick Express services, mainly due to the luggage issues.

 

[Harlesden]

Apologies for drifting just a little, but can anyone tell me which stock SR would have used in 1960/1 for services between Waterloo and Reading via Staines.

 

[tsr]

Yeah I'd agree with that but I don't understand why they are now used Gatwick Express services, mainly due to the luggage issues.

Also, they were horrendously unreliable on their introduction to GatEx workings, leading to many complaints even amongst passengers who generally would not care what class of train they've been given.

That, and the fact that the doors are utterly daft for suburban use. Oh, and the disconcerting louder-than-expected sawing noises from the vestibules.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah I'd agree with that but I don't understand why they are now used Gatwick Express services, mainly due to the luggage issues.

They interwork with services to Brighton and a ten-car formation offers more seating capacity than an eight-car 460. Basically it's a fudge and unless someone wants to fix the track layout so there's plenty of capacity for a Gatwick Express service to fit around the existing stream of services beyond Gatwick it's not going to get better.

 

[GospelOak117]

I'll go for the 423 VEP's as no-one else will . It seems they were hugely disliked in their time but they along with the 411 and 421's are a huge part of my growing up and I made more effort to ride as many of these in their very last days than any other class. Endless fond memories!

 

[Goatboy]

Has to be 5WES for myself.

The last example of Southern Region frugality and by far the best unit by interior environment.

The 442's are brilliant trains - quiet, comfortable and fantastically suited for Waterloo to Weymouth services. Quite why SWT got rid of them I've no idea. Used to love gliding into Waterloo in near silence following a comfortable swift trip from Southampton Central.

They are not nearly as useful on the current services they work, which is a shame. I'd imagine that now they are presumably disliked due to the fact they are used on a reasonably short route for which they do not have the right door or luggage configuration, they will be replaced and scrapped as soon as possible.

The only place for them really was the Weymouth line - as only this line has the journey times where the configuration of a 442 was a strength not a weakness.

 

[SF-02]

442s are great trains for a Brighton to London trip. Very smooth and comfortable, and classier than the alternatives on that line. Agree they are fantastic for runs of that length.

 

[Crompton Karl]

I have to say my favourite has to be the humble MLV - loved their versatility. I remember cabbing it with my dad (retired Charing x driver) on a 12 CEP + 2 MLV formation boat train back in the early 80's. 4000hp (I think - 1000hp per CEP & 500hp per MLV). Immense train.

 

[67012]

Class 411's without question, probably the best emu's ever built.

 

[yorksrob]

I'll go for the 423 VEP's as no-one else will .

Indeed - Very unfairly maligned IMO.

 

[30909]

Not strictly “Southern Region” but Southern Railway latterly Class 404 for TOPS users. Better known as 4COR 4RES and 4BUF even in later years some 4GRI and all affectionately called Nelsons. Happy days bowling down the Portsmouth Direct in a 4COR 4RES 4COR combo sitting in deeply upholstered internally sprung seats and in the corridor composites third class compartments even folding arm rests, strung luggage racks (hammocks for the returning matelots) and reading lights. As they flew down from Haselmere through Liphook, Liss and Petersfield their speed, 75 mph and their 1930s Maunsell running gear gave them the rolling gate of a drunken sailor!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Another vote for the REPs here... especially enjoyable at speed on a non stop between Waterloo and Southampton Central.

 

[Monty]

Apologies for drifting just a little, but can anyone tell me which stock SR would have used in 1960/1 for services between Waterloo and Reading via Staines.

2-BILs and 2-NOLs would have been the staple for services there at that time, If I remember correctly they would run down as far as Ascot as a 4 car service then split. One half would go to Reading the other to Guildford via Aldershot.

 

[SWT158]

Got to be the REP powerful, units bombed down the Bournemouth line many times, think managed to clock on doing 102 once between Basingstoke-Woking
Even enjoyed the full breakfast cooked in the Buffet car sand sit on normal table chairs
the 442s Platic Pigs inproved the line and was a shame moved off
all in all the slammers had character but time moves on
and it not the same
444 are ok but stuffy
and of course cant forget the big soft comfy seats
cushions
Also loved the formations made up when the 4 Reps were coming to end
mix of TC units 4 coaches even 5 and the 73s push pulling the lot what a shud of power got when they were operating

 

[Galvanize]

I like 4CIGs and 4CEPs. Memories of going on family trips to the seaside (usually Hastings, but sometimes Eastbourne or Sandwich!), in the late 1990s when slam doors ruled supreme! CIGs were great because of the comfy seating (especially if it was a phase 1 unit with the "wings" on the sides of the seats), and the individual compartments behind the driver! CEPs were also good because they were less draughty than the CIGs or VEPs, plus I thought they rode slightly better.

Used to HATE VEP units, those 2+3 seats were really uncomfortable they were too draughty with all those windows, plus when they were overcrowded it felt a bit claustrophobic!

 

[hluraven]

CEPs were the nicest of the EMUs to drive for me, and as a passenger too. Not too keen on the VEPs but the CIGs were nice.

 

[bigdelboy]

4rep+4tc was something else ... probaby could have done the 14th april 1988 high speed run quicker IMHO. My best run was a dark friday evening crowded. That left waterloo 10 mins late. Heavy brake for Clapham junction, signalled to walking pace before woking, crazy bouncing through Basingstoke station, and 54 min to Southampton Airport. Maybe 3 min late into southampton and 3 min early to bournmouth.

4-B/CEPs have a soft spot for me, but the original 6 units with their wooden fittings were the classiest.

4-CORs with their swinging front gangway and ice weather capability also has class.

Of course if you want class then 5-BEL.

2BILs and 2HALs were kind of quaint too.

But 4subs(well most), EPBs, HAPs, certainly the first batch of BIG/CIGs and VEPs, and indeed perhaps all CIGs, really pretty boring.

 

[sarahj]

As someone who works 442,s on the BML the issues are:

To slow to unload at Gatwick esp if you have lots of luggage
To slow to get going. If you stop at preston park, hassocks, burgess hill etc
I've left Brugess hill on time, but been late into Wivelsfield
The Ac/Heating is a bit all over

But:

Thye have more room and better seats than a 377, esp a 377 in 3+2 seating
Once they get going, are great, on the Brighton expresses that go, Brighton, East Croydon, Clapham, Vic.
First Class is very plush.
I like the guards van, can do proper dispatch.

Some of the units were caniblised for spare parts before being put back into service, so there have been issues there.
They have got better over time and i know some passengers do like them, esp over a HD 377.

SJ

 

[Smudger105e]

Class 420/1 4-BIG

They were (along with the CIGs and VEPs) the bread and butter when I was a fitter at Brighton. Phase 1 units had bouncy seat cushons and a nice padded headrest too,although the Mk6 motor bogies on the phase 2 units were a better riding design.

IMHO the VEPs were not as good as the CIGS, as the doors tended to be rather draughty, and who could not like a unit with a buffet car in?