Guards having the rear door on units open in motion

[D2022]

Just a quick question, I've noticed lately that a particular guard always seems to have the rear corridor connection door on his unit open while the trains in motion. How legal is this? From personal opinion I see no issue, it's not a public area anyway. But what's the real truth? I was under the assumption that there was an interlock preventing it...

 

[A-driver]

Just a quick question, I've noticed lately that a particular guard always seems to have the rear corridor connection door on his unit open while the trains in motion. How legal is this? From personal opinion I see no issue, it's not a public area anyway. But what's the real truth? I was under the assumption that there was an interlock preventing it...

What do you mean by rear corridor connection? Do you mean the one that let's you walk between units when coupled up like on a 317 or 455? If so they are not on the interlock wire. Not sure why you would have it open-especially in this weather, don't know that its actually against the rules but common sense dictates its not particularly clever-putting aside the worst case scenario of the guard falling out the draft would be quite wrong and you could probably find your coat or diagram it bag or (god forbid) cup of tea being blown out!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

You mean the door on the front of the cab? AFAIK there is no law or interlock issues for that door (how would trains in multiple move if there was!)

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think he means the cab door, i sometimes see this on 150s (i think) as it allows the guard to view donw the platform for the first few seconds of departure.

 

[Monty]

Just a quick question, I've noticed lately that a particular guard always seems to have the rear corridor connection door on his unit open while the trains in motion. How legal is this? From personal opinion I see no issue, it's not a public area anyway. But what's the real truth? I was under the assumption that there was an interlock preventing it...

On SWT's 455s if the guard has his key on from any one of the cabs it overrides the traction interlock on that cab door(s), I don't sign other Mark 3 or PEP based stock so I can only assume you may be able to do the same on those units (Can anyone confirm/deny this?). So in theory the train can take power while that door is open, I don't do it myself as it's asking for an incident to happen. I have visions of a late running passenger trying to jump on a moving train via local door and falling between the train and platform. I don't fancy doing a 5 year stretch.

EDIT: I've just noticed you were talking about the gangway doors, as A-Driver has already mentioned they are not part of the traction interlock and the train can move while these are wide open.

 

[D2022]

What do you mean by rear corridor connection? Do you mean the one that let's you walk between units when coupled up like on a 317 or 455? If so they are not on the interlock wire. Not sure why you would have it open-especially in this weather, don't know that its actually against the rules but common sense dictates its not particularly clever-putting aside the worst case scenario of the guard falling out the draft would be quite wrong and you could probably find your coat or diagram it bag or (god forbid) cup of tea being blown out!

I mean the door used to make the corridors connection when another unit is attached. The one that's one the actual end of the train with the rubber ring and the coupling below it. So yes those you suggested.

I can think of one reason...the guard I've seen doing it smokes

I admit I've done it in preservation with ECS movements of coaching stock, hang out the back door and smoke. But yes. Not sensible

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I don't sign other Mark 3 or PEP based stock so I can only assume you may be able to do the same on those units (Can anyone confirm/deny this?).....

On 319s the cab side door is part of interlock regardless of any keys being present, although, as DOO units, you'd not expect the door to be open when the train is moving.

 

[A-driver]

On 319s the cab side door is part of interlock regardless of any keys being present, although, as DOO units, you'd not expect the door to be open when the train is moving.

That is because the 319 cab doors are plug doors so put the train out of gauge when open.

I was going to ask if the guard smoked as that would be a good reason to open that door.

 

[455driver]

On 319s the cab side door is part of interlock regardless of any keys being present,

But they are swing plug doors and so would be over width where-as the 455 has plain old sliding doors and wouldnt.

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

No doubt the guard knows the risk he's taking.

I was surprised in Hungary a few years back to see their solution to keeping non-air-conditioned coaches cool in summer...go with all the doors open, all the time! Funny old thing, noone seemed to fall out.

 

[sarahj]

I remember being in France in 1989 and the coastal routes from monaco to nice all had their doors open between stations to keep the train cool.

To Mr SWT, on southern, all the stock I work 377,442 and 313, the train wont move if any door is open, be it sliding, plug or old style swing on the 442, all the key does is activate the panels. I just wished the 313 had a pull down window on the non drivers side for safe despatch, I too dont want to do time.
Esp on late trains, you want to be able to look down the platform after the train has moved away, and I have, had to stop the train with 1 bell due to passengers being 'tired and emotional' and trying to hug, kiss or touch a train after it moves. Off course, all you get is abuse when you ask them to move back after just saving their lives, ho hum.
SJ

 

[D2022]

No doubt the guard knows the risk he's taking.

I was surprised in Hungary a few years back to see their solution to keeping non-air-conditioned coaches cool in summer...go with all the doors open, all the time! Funny old thing, noone seemed to fall out.

Because the H&S brainwashing we have here hasn't made it there, over here common sense not not fall out the doors has been destroyed...

'oh look an open door, wonder what would happen if I walk out at 100mph...'

 

[A-driver]

Because the H&S brainwashing we have here hasn't made it there, over here common sense not not fall out the doors has been destroyed...

'oh look an open door, wonder what would happen if I walk out at 100mph...'

I don't think it's as much to do with h&s but the liability and blame/suing culture. If someone does fall out an open door then they (or their next of Kin) can sue the railway for it.

 

[Aictos]

I don't think it's as much to do with h&s but the liability and blame/suing culture. If someone does fall out an open door then they (or their next of Kin) can sue the railway for it.

Exactly, it's the where there's blame there's a claim culture that the previous government encouraged I say that because they could have regulated the industry but never did.

 

[D2022]

I don't think it's as much to do with h&s but the liability and blame/suing culture. If someone does fall out an open door then they (or their next of Kin) can sue the railway for it.

Very good point that actually

 

[driver9000]

TW2 1.1 lists the gangway door at the end of the train or where a connection can't be made as one of the doors that must be kept locked.

 

[asylumxl]

No doubt the guard knows the risk he's taking.

I was surprised in Hungary a few years back to see their solution to keeping non-air-conditioned coaches cool in summer...go with all the doors open, all the time! Funny old thing, noone seemed to fall out.

In Hungary the older more decrepit rolling stock is so past it, i doubt the doors being open really makes much difference. MAV don't seem too bothered to be honest.

Besides, some routes are lucky and have Flirts and Desiros.

 

[the sniper]

TW2 1.1 lists the gangway door at the end of the train or where a connection can't be made as one of the doors that must be kept locked.

And the law would suggest that you can't smoke in the cab.

 

[Charlie2555]

I saw this Class 450 at Clapham Junction in May: Edit: it was in motion at the time.

Have you forgotten something?! 450548 by Charlie Trains, on Flickr

 

[A-driver]

Is that photo in the yard at clapham? It's pretty common to leave nose end doors open in yards when shunting/coupling as its a waste of time to close all the nose end doors to shunt it to another road then attach it and open them all again. Just remember to close them before going through the wash as I learnt the hard way a while ago.

 

[Monty]

Looks like one the lines that leads into the yard at Clapham most certainly.

 

[MrC]

Also if you look carefully at least one of the internal doors is closed. You'd need a carriage (or 'L') key to open it so less likely for someone just to walk through and be at risk of falling out.

 

[D2022]

Also if you look carefully at least one of the internal doors is closed. You'd need a carriage (or 'L') key to open it so less likely for someone just to walk through and be at risk of falling out.

T key surely? Or do unit guards not need the additional bit for the heating circuit?

 

[455driver]

The unit is not in passenger service, it is in Clapham yard (CY26 signal to the left of the picture), has just been detached from one unit and is being shunted before connecting to another unit.

Not exactly news as it happens probably 20 or 30 times a day but you never know send it to the Daily Mail you might get a couple of quid and be tomorrows headline!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

T key surely? Or do unit guards not need the additional bit for the heating circuit?

We dont get T keys we get L keys instead.

 

[Charlie2555]

It just looked quite unusual with that door being open, but I do believe it was going into the yard and the inner door was closed, as can be seen in the pictures so was not really dangerous!