First will not take over West Coast from December

[snail]

There is also a statement from the Permanent Secretary:

Department for Transport Permanent Secretary Philip Rutnam yesterday received the report of the investigation into the role and conduct of officials in the award process for the ICWC franchise process conducted by Bill Stow (a former Director General at Defra).

He is now considering the report and decisions on action following this investigation will be made shortly.

The Permanent Secretary decided yesterday to lift the suspensions of three DfT officials imposed on the 3 October. The decision to suspend a member of staff, or to lift that suspension, is separate from the disciplinary process and does not imply any conclusion on culpability.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/permanent-secretary-concerning-west-coast-main-line

 

[AndyLandy]

You could copy and paste Bob Crow's comments from all of his earlier outbursts, tbf.

I don't understand why the man gets so much press attention. "We asked Bob Crow. He said we should re-nationalise the railways." What on earth is the point in asking him anything? He never provides any insight into anything he's ever asked about. Just provides these glib and rather pointless soundbites.

 

[PR1Berske]

Because he's worth a good 200 or so words to stuff in an article. And you can imagine the mess created if a Union voice wasn't quoted....

 

[jon0844]

It is odd because the RMT isn't the only union, yet seems to have a monopoly when it comes to press coverage. He's clearly the one that when called/emailed will get a comment sent back in seconds - whereas other people might not want to (or could be busy doing other things). Either that, or the BBC has a Bob Crow comment generator and just press a button to create a new one on demand.

It works like that in any industry. The likes of the BBC have their lists of contacts and people they will always call because they know they can always get them to issue a comment or appear on TV/radio at short notice. These might not always be the most appropriate people, but it's that or writing a story that might seem biased or one-sided.

You can see that Twitter is now providing a useful amount of filler material on many stories, where people have either refused to comment or simply haven't even been asked because it's quicker to just cut & paste whatever nonsense can be found online. Joe Public probably don't care either way.

 

[AndyLandy]

Because he's worth a good 200 or so words to stuff in an article. And you can imagine the mess created if a Union voice wasn't quoted....

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if these reporters haven't got wise to it now and they don't actually ask Bob Crow any more. Instead they just pad out the end of the article "We spoke to RMT General Secretary, Bob Crow, who thinks this is an unmitigated disaster and once again reinforces the need to re-nationalise our railways."

After all, it's probably what we would say if you asked him, so just save the effort.

 

[dggar]

It works like that in any industry. The likes of the BBC have their lists of contacts and people they will always call because they know they can always get them to issue a comment or appear on TV/radio at short notice. .

John Redwood springs to mind.
years ago he used to be Persona Non Grata but now seems to pop up all over the place

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The lancaster services are voyagers i believe?
I dont think they will want to drag off wires if they can help it.

I don't think there are any Lancaster starters from next week - they all come from Glasgow.
There are some planned Euston-Preston extras in the WCML RUS, but these are 390s with extra stops to allow Glasgow services to be speeded up.
They also can't start until the 390 H3 upgrade is finished next year, and I'm not aware if ORR has yet said they can run (there are other options).

Voyagers can only come from Chester/North Wales or Birmingham-Scotland services.
So I think we might find some robbing of Peter to pay Paul going on until some new trains are ordered (obviously not for a couple of years).

The SoS was careful not to say too much about the Shrewsbury service, not even agreeing it would call at Wellington or Telford.
(You could get a token through service to Shrewsbury by detaching a 221 from a Chester service at Crewe).
The local MPs all agreed to join the SoS on the first train and buy him a beer...

Virgin didn't say anything about Blackpool/Shrewsbury in their press release.

EDIT: Patrick McLoughlin is not as bad as John Prescott at mangling his Commons announcements, but at one point he did say today he was very pleased to see the successful delivery of "106 new Pendolino trains". Dream on...

 

[Sammy h]

I think the only Lancaster starter from next week is the 05:35 service.

 

[SprinterMan]

http://metro.co.uk/2012/12/06/virgi...contract-to-run-west-coast-main-line-3303745/

Virgin Trains handed temporary 23-month contract to run West Coast main line
Virgin Trains has been handed a temporary contract to run services on the West Coast main line for another 23 months, the government has announced.

Sir Richard Branson’s rail company had lost out on a bid to keep running the service earlier this year but the decision to award the deal to FirstGroup was overturned after the billionaire business man launched a legal challenge.

Transport secretary Patrick McLoughlin, who scrapped the bidding for the service after faults were found with the process, said Virgin will be in charge of the London to Scotland route until November 9 2014 and after that a long-term contract would be given to a winning bidder.

The government added if an adequate company could be found sooner to run the service full-time they could shorten the 23-month temporary period by up to six months.

At least the stupid 2 year temporary GA-style franchise has been scrapped.

EDIT: Seen similar article on previous page now :P

Adam

 

[HH]

Having leafed through the full Laidlaw report I think we can conclude that our scapegoat has been found. There are numerous mentions of the "ICWC Project Team Leader" and none of them are flattering. As he is described in the report as a "middle ranking official" (names are not named, but everyone knows who it is) I think we can agree that he is sufficiently junior to carry the can for the whole SNAFU.

Everyone more senior will be exonerated, although some may no longer have promotional prospects.

One other interesting snippet. It appears that VRG are happy to have their amounts left in the report. First have been rather more bashful; does this signify that they finally understand just how dumb their bid was?

 

[SprinterMan]

I think the only Lancaster starter from next week is the 05:35 service.

Correct, the 0535 couples at Crewe to the 0448 Holyhead - Euston service, hence is 221 operated. Aside from the 0658 to New Street this is now the only VT train that starts from here. Also, the 1757 from EUS terminates at Lancaster at 2033.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...edule_type=0&show_wtt=1&show_var=1&show_stp=1

Adam

 

[tbtc]

The likes of the BBC have their lists of contacts and people they will always call because they know they can always get them to issue a comment or appear on TV/radio at short notice. These might not always be the most appropriate people, but it's that or writing a story that might seem biased or one-sided

"Tonight to discuss the weather we have Bob Crow, Shami Chakrabarti. Nigel Farage and someone from the Taxpayers Alliance"

 

[D365]

http://metro.co.uk/2012/12/06/virgi...contract-to-run-west-coast-main-line-3303745/


At least the stupid 2 year temporary GA-style franchise has been scrapped.

EDIT: Seen similar article on previous page now :P

Adam

Yep, somebody's seen some sense in this schism. Will that mean extensions to all other soon-to-expire franchises through 2013 and some of 2014?

A franchise is many a wonderful thing. Ol' Dicky must be gleefully happy - for now.

 

[HH]

From what I've heard DfT is only talking to the Franchises that were already in progress. That may change OFC.

 

[SprinterMan]

From what I've heard DfT is only talking to the Franchises that were already in progress. That may change OFC.

How do you mean, that the ones up for renewal soon will be getting extenstions?

Adam

 

[6Gman]

"Tonight to discuss the weather we have Bob Crow, Shami Chakrabarti. Nigel Farage and someone from the Taxpayers Alliance"

"The weather should be renationalised NOW!"

"There should be more open-ness about how the weather is used to affect people"

"It's all the fault of the EU"

"The Government is wasting money on the 2% of forecasts which are incorrect"

 

[tbtc]

"The weather should be renationalised NOW!"

"There should be more open-ness about how the weather is used to affect people"

"It's all the fault of the EU"

"The Government is wasting money on the 2% of forecasts which are incorrect"

You could be describing almost every episode of BBC Breakfast/ Question Time/ Newsnight...

 

[WatcherZero]

Having leafed through the full Laidlaw report I think we can conclude that our scapegoat has been found. There are numerous mentions of the "ICWC Project Team Leader" and none of them are flattering. As he is described in the report as a "middle ranking official" (names are not named, but everyone knows who it is) I think we can agree that he is sufficiently junior to carry the can for the whole SNAFU.

Everyone more senior will be exonerated, although some may no longer have promotional prospects.

One other interesting snippet. It appears that VRG are happy to have their amounts left in the report. First have been rather more bashful; does this signify that they finally understand just how dumb their bid was?

I actually dont think its that sinister, they probably just dont want to reveal the numbers of the bid that they judged to have won for when its refranchised in future, even if the underlying numbers were dodgy.

Reading through Laidlaw says he didnt find any direct evidence of a ABB bias though he didnt read the trawled emails as they wernt cleared for distribution to him by the dft lawyers until after he had finished writing the review and in interviews he was forbidden to ask staff their motivation and reasoning for making the decisions they took or opinion of the parties questions by the internal disciplinary review. The interviews themselves look like a joke with Laidlaw saying it was a case of everyone blaming each other, having selective memories and each emphasising the importance and attention given to differing topics at the fateful meeting.

Whats also interesting is we can now see the way they fudged the figures, aka the unequal treatment of bidders he alluded to in the draft report. Apparently First said the Dft had underestimated the number of first year passengers in its baseline and argued that there would be more, an independent review of Firsts passenger predictions found that while they wernt as strong as First claimed the dft had underestimated the passengers that could be expected in the first year and said that First could reliably claim 2/3rds of the extra passengers it argued would occur in a do-nothing scenario, this had the effect of Lowering the SLF for First but the same increased passenger predictions applied to Virgin and if applied equally Virgin would have had zero SLF, in the end the Dft decided to use these extra passenger revenue overlay on Firsts Bid but not Virgins when deciding the SLF.

 

[MK Tom]

All the news stories on Virgin's 23 month extension announced today refer to ''introducing a new hourly London-Glasgow service'' - can anyone clarify?

 

[Eagle]

All the news stories on Virgin's 23 month extension announced today refer to ''introducing a new hourly London-Glasgow service'' - can anyone clarify?

Previously there were a couple of two-hour gaps in the EUS-GLC timetable north of Lancaster, but in the new timetable there's a train from London to Glasgow every single hour from 05.39 to 19.30. (And one at 16.57 too.)

Note that this is not actually to do with the franchising process; it would have happened no matter who would be running the franchise at this point, as it's a consequence of the four brand-new 390/1s arriving in the last year.

 

[MK Tom]

Previously there were a couple of two-hour gaps in the EUS-GLC timetable north of Lancaster, but in the new timetable there's a train from London to Glasgow every single hour from 05.39 to 19.30. (And one at 16.57 too.)

Note that this is not actually to do with the franchising process; it would have happened no matter who would be running the franchise at this point, as it's a consequence of the four brand-new 390/1s arriving in the last year.

So that's the only actual change we can expect over the course of the infill period before the new one's let in 2014?

 

[PR1Berske]

So that's the only actual change we can expect over the course of the infill period before the new one's let in 2014?

Notwithstanding Blackpool and/or Shrewsbury, yes.

 

[Eagle]

Well there's still the wholesale recast of the WCML at the December 2013 change. That might be when the much coveted tenth IC path out of Euston gets used for a TV/Preston stopper (I'm sceptical it'll go to Blackpool before electrification). Also we'll see how much of LM's plans to run to Preston and Manchester get approved...

 

[HH]

Whats also interesting is we can now see the way they fudged the figures, aka the unequal treatment of bidders he alluded to in the draft report. Apparently First said the Dft had underestimated the number of first year passengers in its baseline and argued that there would be more, an independent review of Firsts passenger predictions found that while they wernt as strong as First claimed the dft had underestimated the passengers that could be expected in the first year and said that First could reliably claim 2/3rds of the extra passengers it argued would occur in a do-nothing scenario, this had the effect of Lowering the SLF for First but the same increased passenger predictions applied to Virgin and if applied equally Virgin would have had zero SLF, in the end the Dft decided to use these extra passenger revenue overlay on Firsts Bid but not Virgins when deciding the SLF.

You have to remember that these SLFs were based on the flawed calculations; Virgin should have had an SLF, and First's should have been very large, even if they had allowed both the 2/3 benefit of First's overlay (2/3 sounds like a fudge by Atkins IMO).

NAO Report: http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/1213/intercity_west_coast_franchise.aspx

 

[umontu]

Notwithstanding Blackpool and/or Shrewsbury, yes.

When will the Blackpool route begin?

They could do it now with the 57 stationed at Preston.

I have a feeling I know the answer...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

When will the Blackpool route begin?
They could do it now with the 57 stationed at Preston.
I have a feeling I know the answer...

Left to themselves, VT would not run to either Blackpool or Shrewsbury without new tilting stock being available, or they will have to steal some from other existing WC services.
There will be a net increase of 2x390 next year when the H3 upgrades are finished, but nobody has confirmed what new services they will be used on.
Best guess is the "10th path" Euston-Preston calling at Crewe, Warrington and Wigan and allowing the Glasgows to run non-stop to Preston.
Some of these could continue to Lancaster or Blackpool, but would need 57s if introduced to Blackpool before the wires are up (May 2016).
But this needs a timetable revision to be agreed and there are other competing priorities for the paths.
At one time it was supposed to follow the Norton Bridge remodelling (which increases capacity through Stafford) which is not confirmed yet in CP5.

The very simplest way to start a train from Blackpool would be to send the current 0535 Lancaster starter (221) to Blackpool instead, but that is hardly likely to placate the politicians or locals.
Another way would be to use the extra 390s on Birmingham-Scotland services instead and displace a few 221s for a Blackpool/Shrewsbury service.
And if you are not careful you will replace a current 11-car 390 from Preston with a 5-car 221 and annoy another lot of people.
I'm not sure Blackpool can currently handle an 11-car 390 (maybe not even a 9-car, or a 10-car 221), and the intermediate stations certainly can't.
The Blackpool setup will of course change after electrification, but the solution for Shrewsbury will have to be long-term.

As VT are now on a management contract the costs of new services will lie with DfT, but I don't expect there is an open cheque book.
They would probably plump for new mini-Pendolinos with new locos off the wires, but that won't happen before the next full franchise.

 

[MK Tom]

What about the additional calls and connections for MKC and Nuneaton that Virgin and First both had in their old bids? Is any of that likely to happen before Nov 2014?

 

[Wolfie]

Some of you were sceptical that Virgin would honour their promises to run the WCML extension at no profit to them. You were wrong! See:

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/...-play-ball-8386055.html?origin=internalSearch

Shame that Mr Souter wasn't as generous.....

 

[HH]

Some of you were sceptical that Virgin would honour their promises to run the WCML extension at no profit to them. You were wrong! See:

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/...-play-ball-8386055.html?origin=internalSearch

Shame that Mr Souter wasn't as generous.....

It's not Virgin Trains, it's Branson.

 

[AndyLandy]

It's not Virgin Trains, it's Branson.

What does that mean? Is there even a difference in this context?

https://twitter.com/VirginTrains/status/276613228769968128