The reopened Alloa branch (including the freight line to Longannet) is a good case study- the busy (and anticipated to be busy) level crossings were replaced by bridges where it was practical (in a couple of cases this has actually left relatively long road detours, turning previously through-roads into quiet side streets)- though some have had to be left as there's no sensible workaround. In many cases it simply isn't going to be practical- I can think of some local ones to me where the only solution I can envisage would involve putting the railway in a deep cutting- which would mean a lengthy line closure.
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Level Crossing Incident - Finningley (nr Doncaster) 4th December
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The reopened Alloa branch (including the freight line to Longannet) is a good case study- the busy (and anticipated to be busy) level crossings were replaced by bridges where it was practical (in a couple of cases this has actually left relatively long road detours, turning previously through-roads into quiet side streets)- though some have had to be left as there's no sensible workaround. In many cases it simply isn't going to be practical- I can think of some local ones to me where the only solution I can envisage would involve putting the railway in a deep cutting- which would mean a lengthy line closure.
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neonison
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An RMT spokesperson (not sure if it was Bob, I wasn't watching, only listening) blamed this incident on staff reductions so perhaps RMT feels that the options are:
1. get rid of all L/Cs
2. staff them
...and as this was the BBC surely it should have been "unpersonned"?
michael769
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My first reaction was that calling for the removal of barriers was a bizarre pronoucement even from the RMT and with the cause not yet established, poor taste in the extreme.
But thinking about it I wonder if he has been misquoted (or maybe misspoke) and it should have been calling for the removal of LCs which is a somewhat more sane and defensible position?
But thinking about it I wonder if he has been misquoted (or maybe misspoke) and it should have been calling for the removal of LCs which is a somewhat more sane and defensible position?
I assume that's what he was referring to and as you say either misspoke or was misquoted. Certainly that's a laudable aim and also one that Network Rail are working towards (something like 700 crossings have been closed in the last two/three years?). Though it's going to cause job losses amongst his members so I do find his position to be a bit odd as a Union boss.
matchmaker
Established Member
And (apart from some UWC's) all the Alloa line crossings are CCTV with full barriers. An AHB was planned for Cambus but this was changed after local opposition.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It's an AHB crossing. Automatic Half Barrier. The clue is in the name :roll:
Perfectly safe unless misused by idiot road users.
t o m
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No new level crossings have been installed since the 1960's.
SWTCommuter
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My guess is that Bob Crow called for the phasing out of AHB crossings but the journalist didn't understand the 'automatic half barrier' bit so just wrote 'barriers', rendering the statement nonsensical.
Only a guess though.
Only a guess though.
PaxVobiscum
Established Member
Now that sounds like a challenge to find one!
Not National Rail, and not a normal level crossing either, but Britannia Bridge on the main street of Portmadoc had narrow gauge rails laid along it a few years ago thus forming a sort of crossing.
Now that sounds like a challenge to find one!
Not National Rail, and not a normal level crossing either, but Britannia Bridge on the main street of Portmadoc had narrow gauge rails laid along it a few years ago thus forming a sort of crossing.
Well the A47 Wisbeach bypass was constructed in the 1980s IIRC and the Wisbeach freight line closed only a few years ago (now the Bramley preserved line) and crosses that. but it is true that they wont consider re opening now.
Some cannot easily be replaced, such as in towns where bridges cannot be physically installed.
The Great Central Railway was shining example of forward planning as to my knowledge it was constructed with no LCs between Marylebone and Manchester (or maybe one near Mansfield?) which is why stations were built as Islands either accessed by steps up or down from the road and large sections built on viaducts above the Cities of Nottingham and Leicester
YorkshireBear
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Northern rail service has struck a car between Carlisle and Hexham, not at a level crossing though apparently...
t o m
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Now that sounds like a challenge to find one!
Not National Rail, and not a normal level crossing either, but Britannia Bridge on the main street of Portmadoc had narrow gauge rails laid along it a few years ago thus forming a sort of crossing.
Just what my S&T instructor told me yesterday. Don't hold me to it! Obviously new barriers have been installed but apparently no new crossings opened.
MadCommuter
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Thanks for the info - I never knew that was even a possibility. Presumably its a torch that all drivers carry? [Excuse my ignorance]
RIP to the young girl.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Yes, all drivers must carry a hand-lamp capable of displaying a red aspect.
t o m
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Even just a white light waved vigorously can be used as signal to stop a train.
Hmmm. The A52 at Wainfleet was built in the early/mid 80's, or indeed the A16 in Boston which was built in 89/90ish.
MadCommuter
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sprinterguy
Veteran Member
The autocoupler has been damaged to the extent that the unit is unable to achieve any brake continuity when coupled to another unit, and reportedly the level of underframe damage has been found to be more severe than was at first expected.
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In This case, it is being reported tonight on BBC Look North that the location of the LC on a ridge and the low winter sun could have played a part, in which case full barriers may not have helped, unless in the case of CCTV worked, it was picked up and the protecting signal returned to danger before the train had approached, however i don't believe that a CCTV worked LC is monitored once the crossing is confirmed as clear, and as has been discussed many times, full barriers are not any stonger and wont stop a skidding car, unlike their solid Oak predecessor gates, which also gave a fairly clear signal they they were closed to the car driver in low winter sunlight
The emphasis must also be made in safety campaigns that should you be unfortunate to end up on a LC with the barriers down for whatever reason, just keep going and get the vehicle off there by whatever means you can, even on the starter motor in first gear if the engine has cut out. far quicker than trying to bale out with kids strapped in the back.
And before i get shot down about crossing misuse, it is not the first time that an innocent driver has been pushed through the barriers by the skidding vehicle behind killing the innocent driver. IIRC this happened in East Anglia the other year
The emphasis must also be made in safety campaigns that should you be unfortunate to end up on a LC with the barriers down for whatever reason, just keep going and get the vehicle off there by whatever means you can, even on the starter motor in first gear if the engine has cut out. far quicker than trying to bale out with kids strapped in the back.
And before i get shot down about crossing misuse, it is not the first time that an innocent driver has been pushed through the barriers by the skidding vehicle behind killing the innocent driver. IIRC this happened in East Anglia the other year
Hyphen
Member
I'm informed ATW policy (I'm unrelated to the industry but know a driver well) is to carry a red hand flag for daytime use, and flash between white/red train lights at night.
When you drive into low sun and get blinded, you bloody well slow down! Forget the possibility of crashing through a barrier, what about that cyclist or kid that jumps out?
There would have been signs warning of a crossing making it even more important to drive with extreme caution.
There would have been signs warning of a crossing making it even more important to drive with extreme caution.
A question to those who know: Should that extend to attempting to drive forward through the barrier that is now between you and safety ? Would attempting this work, or do you risk the barrier damaging the car such that you are now stuck in the car, still on the crossing ? Open question. Far too many variables to start suggesting possible scenarios.
Harbon 1
Member
Surely the barriers would have been designed so that in non CCTV areas, it is easy to break through them, rather than knacker the car trying to get out?
Yep that is very true and as a professional road driver with over 28 years on the job, i have seen it all before, but it is alright in hindsight saying she should have seen it. You have no idea of the circumstances other than she alledgedly went through the closed barriers, Even I get caught out on unfamilar roads when a Stop junction suddenly appears after i have missed a sign due to parked truck and end up a bit sharp on the brakes.
Jumping on the brakes when you come into low sun is also not the ideal thing to do either and short having the barriers set further back from the line, there isnt much that can be done once a vehicle has gone through, other than for the driver to get themselves and any passengers out or as I said, boot it and hope for the best.
However folks dont do that as the many CCTV videos on Youtube show and flap around on the track in a panic.
Lets not forget that even in the rail industry with well trained and medically fit drivers and staff, observational mistakes still get made and drivers fail to slow for severe speed restrictions (Bletchley) or end up with a SPAD, and we then expect the same standard from a basic trained member of the driving public who may have passed a test in the 60s and probably only pops out to the shop and back, compared to myself with over a 2 million road miles under their belt in all conditions, and yep no points ever!!
If there is no CCTV then presumably the crossing is fully automatic and in that case there shouldn't be, as far as I'm aware, any barriers blocking the exit (but obviously they will be blocking the entrance). But even if there are barriers modern barriers aren't the sturdiest things in the world so I'd imagine if you put your foot down most cars would be able to force their way through.
LC barriers are not very strong in the perpendicular direction and will break the shear bolts. Compared to a 50 to 500 ton train hitting your vehicle, the damage caused by driving into a barrier is minimum
The driver of the HGV straw truck that got trapped at the begining of the year on the LC in Wales left his lorry and abandoned it causing severe damage to the train and writing off the truck. Although in mitigation, he did think the track workers nearby had tripped the LC and there was no danger.
If he had had the forethought to keep going, then he would still probably have been prosecuted for a near miss but at least the train and truck would have survived. NWR can always put the barriers back
I was discussing this accident tonight with my 21 year old and explaining how you should always keep a distance so that as you enter the LC at a safe speed not only is the exit clear but you have sufficient speed to roll over by dipping the clutch, should your engine cut out. "Didnt think of that, and wasnt tested on my driving test on what to do if i broke down on it" he said:roll:
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neonison
Member
Torside, on the Woodhead route (actually MSLR which pre-dated GCR) springs to mind. Spent many a day photing double-headed 76's.
Ah maybe that was one of the few on there then, I know that it was laid out specifically to avoid LCs as well as being to continental loading Gauge and with minimal curves and gradients
Whatever came of the Victorian builders plans for a tunnel under the channel
It has just come by me that from the picture posted yesterday of the 153 and the 67 next to it, it looks like the 153 stopped not that long after the crossong - doesn't look like 1/4 mile as I'm sure has been stated...or is perception from the angle it has been taken from?
Also, RIP to the girl who has sadly passed away in the incident
Also, RIP to the girl who has sadly passed away in the incident
neonison
Member
BBC website quotes Sim Harris, editor of Rail News, who said the problem of crossings was as old as railways but had got steadily worse.
RAIB investigations involving vehicular/train incidents at crossings:
2006 2
2007 4
2008 2
2009 4
2010 3
2011 4
2012 3
...was it ever lower?
RAIB investigations involving vehicular/train incidents at crossings:
2006 2
2007 4
2008 2
2009 4
2010 3
2011 4
2012 3
...was it ever lower?
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