First will not take over West Coast from December

[Deerfold]

It seems to be rather unfair if one company who currently owns a franchise has a way of mobilising passengers to fight their corner that other companies do not, solely because they are the incumbent.

It's a bit different if passengers do it off their own bat.

I'd be fine with messages thanking passengers for their support once everything was finished but am definitely uncomfortable with the messages that have been reported as being sent.

I work in a (non-rail) area where we put messages out on boards listing bus departures. We have very strict rules about what they are allowed to contain. At one point they were allowed to be altered by staff at any bus garage with the aim being to get information onto them more quickly. We had a number of incidents so now they can only be put out by a small number of centrally-based people which has probably slowed down how quickly we can put messages out, but ensures they remain professional and unbiased.

 

[PR1Berske]

It seems to be rather unfair if one company who currently owns a franchise has a way of mobilising passengers to fight their corner that other companies do not, solely because they are the incumbent.

Exactly my point.

What could First do? Hand out leaflets in Upper Crust stores?

 

[AlterEgo]

What could First do? Hand out leaflets in Upper Crust stores?

They could hand out leaflets on FGW, Hull Trains, FCC, TPE, Scotrail...but you and I already know why they wouldn't do that.

First have hundreds of millions of passenger journeys a year on their network - far more than Virgin.

 

[snail]

It seems to be rather unfair if one company who currently owns a franchise has a way of mobilising passengers to fight their corner that other companies do not, solely because they are the incumbent.

What did they do that First couldn't? Email people on their mailing list? - No, First probably have just as many customers if not more

I didn't see anything on stations during the franchise round, and I use Virgin operated stations quite a lot. Evidence, please.

 

[pablo]

All's fair in love and war, and franchises. hock:

 

[Deerfold]

First have hundreds of millions of passenger journeys a year on their network - far more than Virgin.

But not ones who are likely to care about the WCML!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What did they do that First couldn't?

Put messages where they could guarantee WCML passengers would see them?

Email people on their mailing list? - No, First probably have just as many customers if not more

Many of whom are likely not to give a jot about the WCML so long as their trains are OK.

I didn't see anything on stations during the franchise round, and I use Virgin operated stations quite a lot. Evidence, please.

Perhaps not, but if these reports are true, they are doing *now* when it's far from clear what the long-term outcome is.

 

[Roverman]

There was a letter on the tables in First Class lounge at Lime Street, I have a photo on my phone.

 

[transmanche]

It's an irresponsible misuse of equipment, and I'm not convinced that they are strictly *their* screens.

But I'm aware that there's no recompense from this because of the grip Virgin has on the government.

"Disgraceful" and "Irresponsible"? We're only talking about some 'thanks for supporting us' messages. Surely "mildly irritated" is more appropriate, if they really bother you.

However, I think your comments tell us more about your opinion of Virgin than anything else.

 

[jon0844]

There were photos on here showing Virgin changing on-train screens and platform signs to get people to support them and sign the petition etc.

I think it was wrong to do that, as Virgin had a clear advantage over First because it had access to the existing users - not just the general public as a whole who might not have cared if it hadn't been a company run by someone like Richard Branson.

And I don't hate Virgin at all - but I didn't support the way they managed losing the franchise.

 

[Jeni]

I suspect the franchise process went a little bit like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agFWob0E7ns

 

[Pumbaa]

Latest murmurings are a clear cut 2 year extension with the daft idea of a mini interim franchise binned.

Source - Eye.

Personally that is at odds with what I've been told, but hope for sake of sanity that this is now indeed the case.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Stagecoach half-year results http://www.stagecoach.com/media/news-releases/2012/2012-12-05.aspx
show that Virgin Rail Group made an operating profit before tax of £16.2m or 3.7% of revenue for the 6 months to Oct 31.
This is about a third less than the same period last year.
No credit for refunded bid costs included.

 

[HH]

Latest murmurings are a clear cut 2 year extension with the daft idea of a mini interim franchise binned.

Source - Eye.

Personally that is at odds with what I've been told, but hope for sake of sanity that this is now indeed the case.

It looks like pure guesswork on Roger Ford's part, and I also deem it unlikely.

 

[Pumbaa]

Agreed. I just put it up as it may be of interest to some.

Also the Extendolino programme completion is being celebrated tomorrow at Euston, 11am. 390157 is being especially vinyled tonight for it. Probably goodies being doled out like they always do.

So if anyone's in the area, you may get something!

 

[IanXC]

Plans for an interim franchise while the west coast main line's future is resolved look set to be scrapped when the transport secretary, Patrick McLoughlin, announces a deal for Virgin Rail to keep operating the route for the next two years.

Richard Branson's firm will be given the rights to run trains from London to Glasgow until the end of 2014 without the competition for a short-term interim franchise that McLoughlin promised when FirstGroup's award was scrapped in October.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/dec/05/virgin-rail-west-coast-mainline-two-years

So the plan changes yet again!

 

[3141]

Thanks for that link, Ian XC. I'm glad that the DfT has seen sense. They would have had difficulty sorting out their franchise policy, even for a short franchise, in time to get another operator in place in January 2014. It would have been a waste of money for bidders and the DfT to be doing it. There would have been the possibility of three different companies running the West Coast over a period of little more than two years.

Of course the DfT could find a way round any issues from the EU. While we wait to see what First will do, they won't object if they get an extension of a similar length for Great Western while the DfT sorts itself out.

Ah..."while the DfT sorts itself out..." I wonder if they really will be in a position only a year from now to re-start franchise competitions for West Coast and the "paused" franchises. There are also likely to be impacts on the routes which were to have been refranchised after the West Coast and the "paused" ones. It was in any case going to be very demanding for the DfT. Will they cope?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Two years is at least time for some improvements to be made and for performance to be assessed.
Anything shorter and the franchise is just ticking over.
Still probably not long enough to order any new trains, though.

 

[HH]

Latest news says 23 months, finishing 2am 9th November 2014, with an option to finish up to 6 months earlier if DfT can get their act together (unlikely!).

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/virgin-trains-to-run-improved-west-coast-services

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's a 23-month management contract until 9 November 2014, DfT taking revenue risk. Virgin Trains get 1% of revenue.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/virgin-trains-to-run-improved-west-coast-services

Nothing new except an improved delay compensation scheme.
May be shortened by 6 months if a new franchise can be let in time.
The Glasgow service and extra capacity guff is what was happening anyway with the 390 extension project.

Statement in the house at 1130 today, the BBC says.

 

[gazthomas]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20620787

Virgin Trains to run West Coast Mainline for extra 23 months

A Virgin train Virgin Trains has run the West Coast Mainline service since 1997

The government has announced Virgin Trains will run the West Coast Mainline for a further 23 months - hours before a report into the collapse of the line's franchise deal is published.

An inquiry has examined why the £5bn deal collapsed in October.

First Group was initially told it had won, but the tendering process was halted because the Department for Transport made numerical mistakes.

Monday's temporary deal means Virgin will run trains until 9 November 2014.

The government said the Department for Transport would be able to shorten the 23-month period "by up to six months if a subsequent franchise can be let on a shorter timescale".

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin also announced a new hourly service between Glasgow and London, adding: "We are determined to ensure not only that passengers continue to experience the same levels of service they have in the past, but that services improve."

Mr McLoughlin will make a statement to the Commons on the West Coast franchise from about 11:15 GMT.

'Shocking ineptitude'

The Department for Transport was forced to scrap the original bid to run trains between London, Manchester and Glasgow because of the miscalculations. Three officials are still suspended.

The inquiry into the collapsed tendering process was led by Centrica chief executive Sam Laidlaw.

The first report from Sam Laidlaw, last October, talked of officials not following their own guidelines, not treating the bidders equally, failing to include inflation in their figures and ignoring warnings of possible problems months before the deal capsized.

According to BBC transport correspondent Richard Westcott, this latest, and final report by Mr Laidlaw will cast more light on why it all went wrong, but is unlikely to name names.

(read more)

 

[jon0844]

"Because of the shocking ineptitude right at the top of this rotten government, Sir Richard Branson has muscled his way into a monopoly provider position and him and his Virgin Trains shareholders will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Bob was, sort of, supporting Virgin earlier this year. How things change.

"The case for renationalisation of Britain's railways is now overwhelming."

And how they stay the same!

 

[PR1Berske]

You could copy and paste Bob Crow's comments from all of his earlier outbursts, tbf.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

He's like a Little Britain character. You could put his catchphrases on t shirts.

 

[PR1Berske]

Subject to track access rights and all the administrative form filling, the Transport Sec has told the House that he hopes to see WCML services from London to Blackpool and Shrewsbury by December 2013.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Subject to track access rights and all the administrative form filling, the Transport Sec has told the House that he hopes to see WCML services from London to Blackpool and Shrewsbury by December 2013.

Plus the weasel "value for money" test...
Where will they find the stock for more than a token service?

Now Cheryl Gillan is using the opportunity to bash HS2 - stoutly defended by SoS.

 

[PR1Berske]

Plus the weasel "value for money" test...
Where will they find the stock for more than a token service?

I suspect they'll extend/reroute Lancashire services to/from Blackpool to meet that particular aim

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I suspect they'll extend/reroute Lancashire services to/from Blackpool to meet that particular aim

So we're back to towing Pendolinos?

 

[YorkshireBear]

So we're back to towing Pendolinos?

The lancaster services are voyagers i believe?
I dont think they will want to drag off wires if they can help it.

 

[snail]

The lancaster services are voyagers i believe?
I dont think they will want to drag off wires if they can help it.

There is one in the morning that joins with a Chester service at Crewe. The other Lancaster services are being extended to Glasgow to make up the hourly service.

I see that according to the Guardian report the Laidlaw Report is finished and with Ministers but wasn't published because of the possible court action.

 

[IrishDave]

I see that according to the Guardian report the Laidlaw Report is finished and with Ministers but wasn't published because of the possible court action.

The final version of the Laidlaw report is now online.