Advance Tickets - Train No Longer In Timetable

[Wiggaz]

In mid-October, I booked - via Redspottedhanky - a day trip from Runcorn (RUN) to Euston (EUS) for New Year's Eve.

I booked Advance tickets both ways - on the 09:02 from RUN on the outward leg, and on the 18:17 from EUS on the return.

However, the 18:17 no longer exists in the timetable and seems to have been replaced with the 18:07. I rang RSH today to ask what I should do. They told me that my ticket wouldn't be valid on the 18:07, and after initially trying to charge me the £10 per ticket admin fee to amend the booking(!), they eventually suggested that I post the tickets back to them and they will refund me. However, they made no promises as to covering any extra cost - e.g. difference in fare (although I don't think this is an issue as of today), postage, etc - nor as to the method of refund.

I'm quite prepared to fight my corner with RSH if I need to, but it all sounds like a faff when all I want now is to travel on the 18:07. Am I likely to have any success in getting a new reservation at a station and/or via Virgin, or am I better off simply buying fresh tickets and then doing what RSH have suggested?

 

[yorkie]

Your train has effectively been cancelled. Therefore you are entitled to a FULL refund or you may take either the train before or after your booked train. What outcome is preferable to you?

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/advance_conditions.html

Your ticket is non-refundable. However, if the train you purchased a ticket for is cancelled or delayed and as a result you decide not to travel a refund will be offered on completely unused tickets and you will not be charged an administration fee.

If you wish to cancel the ticket and get a new one, write to them quoting the above, and if they refuse to refund you, contact Passenger Focus.

Personally I'd just board the 1807 but if you want a reservation that may be tricky if RSH won't change it for you, in theory any station could issue a reservation for the 1807.

 

[Wiggaz]

Thanks, Yorkie.

I want the least amount of hassle, so ideally I want to catch the 18:07 without having to buy new tickets, get new reservations, etc. I only mentioned the latter because I thought it might oil the wheels with any gateline staff and/or the TM. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't imagine that trains heading north at that time on New Year's Eve are likely to be that full?

If you'd leave things as they are and simply board the 18:07 with the existing tickets and reservations then that's good enough for me!

 

[trainophile]

in theory any station could issue a reservation for the 1807.

Does this apply to all TOCs? ATW don't issue seat reservations with Advance tickets, and when I've tried to get them from a station counter I've been told that isn't possible "as they are Advance tickets".

This is rather frustrating as most of the ATW services I use show "Reservations recommended" in the search engine, yet I can't get one!

Sorry to take thread off at a tangent but would be interested in any comments regarding seat reservations for Advance tickets where none are issued on booking.

Edit: Oh hi Wiggaz, I'm in Southport too!

 

[yorkie]

I would, personally.

Talking to some of those sort of people on the 'phone can be a draining experience and it doesn't achieve much (unless you can be assertive and are prepared to insist on speaking to a manager).

Whenever my train has been cancelled (either in advance due to short notice planned engineering works or due to disruption on the day) I've never had any issues getting the train immediately before, or after, my booked train.

I did once have an SWT guard who moaned at me for being on the booked arrival time, who claimed I should have delayed my journey (long story) on Megatrain but he didn't make the mistake of actually charging me, which was fortunate for him.
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Does this apply to all TOCs? ATW don't issue seat reservations with Advance tickets, and when I've tried to get them from a station counter I've been told that isn't possible "as they are Advance tickets".

For ATW, they do not issue a seat reservation by default with an Advance ticket. However if you take your ticket to a station they should be willing and able to issue a seat reservation for you. This is a reasonable compromise due to people either not turning up or not really being too fussed where they sit.

I didn't bother last time I used ATW, which was from Abergavenny to Manchester. Had there been no seats available when I boarded then I know I'd have been able to get a seat from the next stop.

 

[trainophile]

For ATW, they do not issue a seat reservation by default with an Advance ticket. However if you take your ticket to a station they should be willing and able to issue a seat reservation for you. This is a reasonable compromise due to people either not turning up or not really being too fussed where they sit.

I didn't bother last time I used ATW, which was from Abergavenny to Manchester. Had there been no seats available when I boarded then I know I'd have been able to get a seat from the next stop.

I've been refused both at Hereford and Southport stations when presenting an Advance ticket (several days before travel) and asking for a seat reservation. I did wonder whether they were in the right. Oh well, never had to stand yet, but given the recommendation to book I was trying to cover all bases. I'm a bit too decrepit these days to stand for nearly two hours!

Lol Yorkie the next stop from Abergavenny to Manchester is Hereford! Small world isn't it .

 

[Be3G]

Your train has effectively been cancelled. Therefore you are entitled to […] take either the train before or after your booked train. What outcome is preferable to you?

This is useful to know (although I don't use advance tickets often) – but is this fact actually published anywhere? I'd be wary of trying it without some kind of evidence to back me up, despite the fact you say you've done it with nearly no issues.

 

[John @ home]

is this fact actually published anywhere?

There are two relevant sentences in the Advance ticket terms and conditions.

If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey. ...

If the train you purchased a ticket for is cancelled or is delayed by more than 60 minutes and you still decide to travel, special arrangements will be made to accommodate you on another train (although a seat cannot be guaranteed).

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/advance_conditions.html

 

[Wiggaz]

I've been refused both at Hereford and Southport stations when presenting an Advance ticket (several days before travel) and asking for a seat reservation. I did wonder whether they were in the right.

I've also had my problems with the ticket office at Southport, most recently when they refused to sell me a Northern Rail £10 Day Ranger because Southport was "not a station on the Northern network". They obviously had no idea how to issue the ticket so I realised I was being fobbed off, but it did make we wonder whether I was imagining the Manchester train sitting in the station at the time! Thankfully I wasn't travelling there and then so was able to buy the ticket at Preston the following day.

 

[SickyNicky]

If you're worried, present yourself at the ticket office on the day and point out to them that the train you're booked on doesn't exist. Chances are they will authorise you onto the earlier one (get it in writing with a booking office stamp).

It's happened to me a couple of times and never had a problem doing that.

In fact, yesterday Hereford authorised me to travel to Euston via Shrewsbury and Birmingham on a 1st class lowest tier advance routed AP NEWPORT SLOUGH because of the flooding. Got a nice Virgin 1st class meal and drinks service out of it - it's difficult for anyone to argue with you if you clearly have authority to travel.

 

[Be3G]

There are two relevant sentences in the Advance ticket terms and conditions.

Thanks, I spotted those, but they don't actually back up what yorkie is saying. The first statement says ‘if delays occur while travelling’, which isn't quite the same thing as one's initial train being cancelled. Then the second statement seems to imply that one should await/seek information about the ‘special arrangements’, rather than getting straight on to a different train with no prior authorisation.

I'm not disbelieving yorkie by the way – I'd just like some proof to show to awkward guards!

 

[yorkie]

Your right to a full refund (no admin fee!) is stated on the same page under Refunds:-

Refunds

• Your ticket is non-refundable. However, if the train you purchased a ticket for is cancelled or delayed and as a result you decide not to travel a refund will be offered on completely unused tickets and you will not be charged an administration fee.​

If you still wish to travel then this applies:-

• If the train you purchased a ticket for is cancelled or is delayed by more than 60 minutes and you still decide to travel, special arrangements will be made to accommodate you on another train (although a seat cannot be guaranteed).

In this case, the train is cancelled, the customer still wishes to travel, so he can use another train. If he wants a seat reservation then he needs to get RSH to see sense or perhaps a station can help. I'd probably not bother but really it would be better for all of us if RSH are challenged on this. If the operator is giving out incorrect info then you need to ask to speak to a manager. It's important to be calm and assertive. Unfortunately it is not uncommon for customer services staff to give out incorrect information, it wouldn't be tolerated in any other industry, so I am not quite sure why the rail industry is so infested with this problem