Greater Anglia InterCity Service

[LE Greys]

I remember that as the Pendolinos were being introduced, Virgin West Coast had a fleet of 35 class 87s and 15 class 90s. They handed the 90s back first to reduce fleet operational complexity and allow them to be cascaded to Anglia sooner.

90s also have a little trick called SepEx, which varies current applied to the motor armature and windings, making them very fast starters compared with the 87s and adding tractive effort at low speeds. This is probably why they ended up on freight a lot more than earlier designs. IIRC, it also caused some reliability problems.

 

[IanXC]

My earliest Platform 5 book - 2000 - puts it as 15 allocated to IWCA (Virgin), 25 to WEMP/WEMF (EWS ex-RfD) and 10 to DFLC (Freightliner) of which 2 were sub-leased to IWCA.

I have a random Ian Allan from 1990 which allocates them, 15 to IPSA/IWCA (Intercity West Coast), 5 to RXLE (Parcels) and 30 to FGYX (Railfreight). So it seems that its always been 15 allocated to Intercity from entry to service.

 

[captainbigun]

90s also have a little trick called SepEx, which varies current applied to the motor armature and windings, making them very fast starters compared with the 87s and adding tractive effort at low speeds. This is probably why they ended up on freight a lot more than earlier designs. IIRC, it also caused some reliability problems.

Sort of. Max short term TE is the same for both GEC 412 variants. The SepEx gives more theoretical control maintaining higher TE as speed rises. However the 90s have always struggled to get the power down. That is partly due to the rate at which power is ramped up after a slip.

In reality the driver has more control over an 87 as once the controller is opened on a 90 it's the micro which actually applies current to the motors. As mentioned before you'll find plenty of WC men who preferred the 87s for this exact reason. Upshot is that a 90 is only a little bit quick in ideal conditions, day to day not a lot in it, but the 87 actually being the better machine.

 

[starrymarkb]

I hope they are right. Spending so much to get them in the state they are now (how much of that was down to Virgin?), only to think about getting rid of them.

Technology wise, everything is obsolete after a few years, but you cant go replacing everything after a handful of years. Look at 86s, but still going strong for FL. Look at the 47s, and the 37s.
Is regen worth it? Will it cover the costs of purchasing brand new locos? Brand new locos that will themselves be obsolete in 5yrs time.
Not saying you are wrong. Far from it. Just wondering how necessary it is?
Like all this talk of replacing 91s. Again seems a very daft idea.

I think the issue is mainly with the generation. These were the last DC Motored Locomotives and the world has moved onto AC Variable Voltage Variable Frequency motors.

With the older locomotives there have been a lot of withdrawals from the larger fleet which gives a large spares pool to keep the survivors going...

Certainly with the 91s the entire fleet is used intensively - you can't withdraw a couple to use as Christmas trees to keep the rest going...

LUL are looking at replacing the 1992 stock (which is a similar age) for the same reasons. By the time you have replaced the traction packs of 600 coaches you are approaching the cost of a new fleet (and the new traction doesn't need every axle motored) - 1972 stock will last a bit longer as LU will have recovered a lot of spares from the 1967 stock as the basic trains are identical)

 

[sprinterguy]

I have a random Ian Allan from 1990 which allocates them, 15 to IPSA/IWCA (Intercity West Coast), 5 to RXLE (Parcels) and 30 to FGYX (Railfreight). So it seems that its always been 15 allocated to Intercity from entry to service.

The higher numbered, Railfreight allocated class 90s were also used by Crosscountry on services to Glasgow and Edinburgh from Birmingham from the introduction of the class until 1991, when the final twenty five class 90s were renumbered as class 90/1s and restricted to 75mph for Railfreight work.

You are right that the first fifteen locos have always been the dedicated West Coast passenger locos though.

 

[dk1]

Got to say that Intercity Fleet at Crown Point are doing a cracking job for us boys & girls up front. The reliability of locos 90001-015 is now excellent. It all comes down to things as simple as having a fitter based at Norwich Station soley to fill up the sanders on every arrival throughout the day during the Autumn period. Its all making a big difference & bodes well (i hope) for our stock to get the 'Chiltern' treatment.

 

[Helvellyn]

90001-90025 were delivered in InterCity 'Swallow' livery, 90026-90036 in 'Mainline' livery (basically InterCity coaching stock colours, with no branding) and 90037-90050 were delivered in Railfreight Distribution colours.

However, as has already been pointed out very quickly InterCity were left with just 15 locomotives, Parcels (later Rail Express Systems) 5 and Railfreight Distrubution 30.

Quite why Parcels got 5 I don't know. I'd have thought it'd have made more sense to give InterCity 20 and transfer five more 86/2s to Parcels.