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Ordsall Chord

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Nym

Nym

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Howardh said:
I don't care WHAT THE RUDDY BRIDGE LOOKS LIKE - just get on with it!! here, I've got me shovel, tell me when to start :x
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Here here,

Just build the damn thing and get it done properly (grade seperation please) for the amount they're spending on all this consultation on what the bridge should look like, they could have started building up the viaducts for a flyover (that would actually help now anyway)...
 
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snail

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Nym said:
Just build the damn thing and get it done properly (grade seperation please) for the amount they're spending on all this consultation on what the bridge should look like, they could have started building up the viaducts for a flyover (that would actually help now anyway)...
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Yeah, who cares about knocking down a few Grade 1 listed buildings and realigning Metrolink to fit it in...
 
Nym

Nym

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snail said:
Yeah, who cares about knocking down a few Grade 1 listed buildings and realigning Metrolink to fit it in...
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Is it anywhere near any of them if you use the empty space to the West to smooth out the curve and shove the current Vic - Chat Moss route on a flyover to avoid the whole ensemble and simplify the junction?

Yes, it may well be reserved for development, but I don't even see any hint of civils work on the site...

Also, since when does it go near metrolink? It's 16ft above the line of route being used...
 
Joseph_Locke

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I should write a webpage ...

The problem is that you have a main line from Deansgate to Warrington (CLC) meeting a main line from Preston (Windsor Link) with an at-grade junction at Castlefield. 800m towards Preston you have a junction where the Windsor Link crosses the Chat Moss, also at grade (Ordsall Lane Junction). Ordsall Chord proposes another at-grade junction halfway between these two.

You might like to try and draw how many levels a fully grade-seperated arrangement of these junctions would need, given that it is a requrement that all current routes remain available after the work and remember that the CLC is a freight route so no gradients steeper than 1 in 125 please!

Any grade seperation of the chord at the south end will require 600-700m approach ramps, which is between Oxford Road and Deansgate - straight through Metrolink.

The only way out would have been to take the chord off just north of the Metrolink birdcage bridge, climb over the car dealership, cross the river, MSIRR and Ordsall Lane Junction on an elevated section, turn hard right and loop back to join the Manchester and Bolton east of Central. Downsides are that you're now on the wong side to get to Stalybridge, you still haven't seperated Ordsall Lane or Castlefield Junctions.
 
Nym

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The grade sep I'd be putting in place would be about 1 in 110 ish and approach on the redundant part of the viaduct between ordsall lane and victoria, and fall on the other side of Ordsall Lane, removing a crossing move from the junction and reducing the lines away from Deansgate to a 3 way divergence, if bays are put in on the Exchange area of Victoria for terminating services, moving services away from Piccadilly to reduce the load on Oxford Road to 12tph, easily handleable by the route divergences with the Vic - Liverpool flow taken on a viaduct (Taking almost all Liverpool services) and a 6 track approach into Vic put into place to stop the Windsor, Cord and Overbridge lines screwing eachother up too much, keeping Windsor Bridge nice and seperate until, umm, Winsdor Bridge, with the Salford Central call available for regulation of services via Windsor Bridge, potentially with an additional platform or two.
 
Joseph_Locke

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Nym said:
The grade sep I'd be putting in place would be about 1 in 110 ish and approach on the redundant part of the viaduct between ordsall lane and victoria, and fall on the other side of Ordsall Lane, removing a crossing move from the junction and reducing the lines away from Deansgate to a 3 way divergence, if bays are put in on the Exchange area of Victoria for terminating services, moving services away from Piccadilly to reduce the load on Oxford Road to 12tph, easily handleable by the route divergences with the Vic - Liverpool flow taken on a viaduct (Taking almost all Liverpool services) and a 6 track approach into Vic put into place to stop the Windsor, Cord and Overbridge lines screwing eachother up too much, keeping Windsor Bridge nice and seperate until, umm, Winsdor Bridge, with the Salford Central call available for regulation of services via Windsor Bridge, potentially with an additional platform or two.
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Good idea, already developed and costed, not precluded by the current Ordsall Chord scheme. However, why not lift the Castlefield lines over the Chat Moss instead? much easier (and already developed and costed, not precluded by the current Ordsall Chord scheme) :D
 
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dggar

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Joseph_Locke said:
Good idea, already developed and costed, not precluded by the current Ordsall Chord scheme. However, why not lift the Castlefield lines over the Chat Moss instead? much easier (and already developed and costed, not precluded by the current Ordsall Chord scheme) :D
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Is it possible to develop a quick sketch of these 2 ideas, please
 
LNW-GW Joint

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table38 said:
And it appears a flat crossing with the Metrolink!
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That's not a Metrolink line, it's the access to the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry (part of the Science Museum).
They steam locos (eg the replica Rocket!) now and again and can reach the main line at Ordsall Lane (left of picture).
Not sure how that will work in the future.
I thought they might put in a "Porthmadog"-type crossing as for the Welsh Highland over the Cambrian, but the CGI of the new Chord looks very opaque at that point.

This is the old L&MR Liverpool Road station, the oldest main line passenger terminal in the world.
 
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dggar

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LNW-GW Joint said:
That's not a Metrolink line, it's the access to the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry (part of the Science Museum).
They steam locos (eg the replica Rocket!) now and again and can reach the main line at Ordsall Lane (left of picture).
.
Click to expand...

The MoSI trains usually work down past the junction and reverse up the line along side the mural before working back to their starting point.

The Chord will stop that method of operation.
 
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nerd

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Get your vote in for design 'A' (the one with the arch suspension, and no intermediate pier in the river)

Tuesday 20 November, 4pm - 8pm, Museum of Science & Industry
Wednesday 21 November, 12pm - 8pm, Museum of Science & Industry
Friday 23 November, 12pm - 8pm, Creative Media Centre, Salford
Saturday 24 November, 1pm - 5pm, Museum of Science & Industry
Monday 26 November, 4pm - 8pm, Salford Central Station
Tuesday 27 November, 10am - 5pm, Manchester Town Hall
Wednesday 28 November, 4pm - 8pm, Manchester Piccadilly Station

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/north/Ordsall-Chord.aspx
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dggar

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Went to the consultation today.
There was a plan there called "Short Chord Option" that had been worked up but not taken forward.
It diverved from the the present line just after it emerged from under the MetroLink tracks.
Cut through the site of the YHA and a Garage.
It crossed the river above the Trinity Way road bridge and above the juction of the lines for Deansgate and Victoria.

It then headed towards the disused platforms at Salford Central

I've tried to sketch it on Google Earth.
 

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dggar

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dggar said:
Went to the consultation today.
There was a plan there called "Short Chord Option" that had been worked up but not taken forward.
It diverved from the the present line just after it emerged from under the MetroLink tracks.
Cut through the site of the YHA and a Garage.
It crossed the river above the Trinity Way road bridge and above the juction of the lines for Deansgate and Victoria.

It then headed towards the disused platforms at Salford Central

I've tried to sketch it on Google Earth.
Click to expand...

I've now found links to the official plans:-

http://www.ordsallchord.co.uk/images/downloads/AppendixB_Initial_Alignment_Options.pdf

http://www.ordsallchord.co.uk/images/downloads/AppendixC_Preferred_Alignment.pdf
 
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PR1Berske

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What does the "elevated area at Salford Central" mean for any plans for that station?
 
Xenophon PCDGS

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I am still trying to understand what I was told at the exhibition at Manchester Town Hall about the lines crossing the throat approaches to MOSI being "about a foot or so higher" and of the implications that might mean.

If I am wrong in my understanding in what was said to me there, can someone kindly correct my misunderstanding on this particular point.
 
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WatcherZero

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Eagle said:
A foot or so higher than what?

(From the pictures on Network Rail's site it looks like the line to MOSI has been completely severed.)
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A foot or so higher than the existing alignment to MOSI, i.e. if you wanted to have a diamond crossing to maintain access you would need to raise the level of the MOSI trackbed which may or may not be possible.
 
Chris125

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Paul Sidorczuk said:
If I am wrong in my understanding in what was said to me there, can someone kindly correct my misunderstanding on this particular point.
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Sounds about right to me - presumably it allows the new viaduct deck to be built over the existing structure, removing any need for major modifications.

Chris
 
Xenophon PCDGS

Xenophon PCDGS

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WatcherZero said:
A foot or so higher than the existing alignment to MOSI, i.e. if you wanted to have a diamond crossing to maintain access you would need to raise the level of the MOSI trackbed which may or may not be possible.
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Looking at that matter from the point of view of MOSI, how much inconvenience would be caused to them if the existing connection to the national rail network was to be totally terminated ?
 
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