DfT proposes third class of tickets

[maniacmartin]

Today there was Daily Telegraph article on the option for new franchises to have a third class, between standard and first. Possibly this is similar to Chiltern's Business Zone class.

'Third class' rail travel could return for first time since 1950s, unions claim

The Department of Transport’s franchising agreement allows bidders to “propose the introduction of a third passenger class”, Earl Attlee has told peers.

The DfT insisted this meant a class somewhere between standard and first – equivalent to airlines’ premium economy, a view which was not shared by critics including Lord Myners, the former Labour minister, who tabled the question in the House of Lords.

"I was astonished by the response which suggested there could be a cattle class carriage at the back or one for toffs at the front," he said.

There has long been interest within the rail industry for the introduction of additional classes of travel which, like airlines, could for example see passengers being offered more legroom without free food and access to a business lounge.

Another option being considered within the industry would be an enhanced reservation - only standard class where passengers, for a fee, would be guaranteed a seat.

It is understood First Group was considering the introduction of a third class – between standard and first – in its proposals for the West Coast Main Line running from London to north west England and Scotland....


(read more)

The article comes with out-of-touch quote from Bob Crow, as usual.

Now we know, the door is open for the train operators to introduce a third passenger class as and when it suits them

We knew that this Government was winding the clock back on employment, benefit and legal rights but now they are opening up the option to dive back in time more than 50 years to the days of third class rail travel.

 

[transmanche]

Today there was Daily Telegraph article on the option for new franchises to have a third class, between standard and first.

Isn't that what Virgin tried to do - hence why the Pendolino & Voyager trains have the layout they do? (And BR had 'Silver Standard' on some routes too.)

 

[Wath Yard]

I'm more concerned about the 'enhanced' reservations. If paid for reservations will guarantee a seat then what will we get with a free reservation, or will they be abolished? NXEC started charging for reservations and I don't recall it being very popular.

 

[Lampshade]

Stick a Pacer on the back of every train, there we go, third class.

 

[HSTEd]

Oh wonderful, DfT follows the current governments obsession with returning to the 1950s.....

 

[Eagle]

" 'Third class' rail travel could return for first time since 1950s"

Misleading headline. What's being proposed isn't Third Class (as in a lower class than Standard, formerly Second), but a third class, a middle class if you will.

 

[johnnychips]

Like some airlines offer an enhanced economy class, with perhaps more legroom and luggage allowance.

 

[tsr]

Three classes:

First
Standard
Bog Standard (stand in the acessible toilet)

(The codes on the tickets:

1ST
STD
BOG

It's easy to understand. What could be better?)

 

[Eagle]

That's already a thing on XC :P

 

[tsr]

That's already a thing on XC :P

And, as we know, FCC sometimes only offers "Standard" and "Bog Standard"!

 

[wintonian]

I supose it would work something like:

1st - Nice seat with freebies and slap up meal depending on time of day.

2nd - 2+2 seating (possibly using first class coaches on Pendolinos etc.) and or complimentary drinks & biscuits i.e. weekend first.

3rd - 3+2 seating or 2+2 if drinks and biscuits are provided in 2nd.

Mind you a few years back a 'standing' class (coaches without or with limited seating) was talked about in some political corners as a way of providing cheap fares and increasing capacity on commuter routes, which I suppose with imagination could be called 3rd class. However I haven't heard this talked about for sometime now so I assume it was just a passing fad.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

" 'Third class' rail travel could return for first time since 1950s"

Misleading headline. What's being proposed isn't Third Class (as in a lower class than Standard, formerly Second), but a third class, a middle class if you will.

Wasn't it the case that what is now Standard Class, previously Second Class, was in fact re-named from Third Class in the 1950s with the then Second Class being the one that got abolished? So technically most of us are using Third Class anyway already...?

 

[John55]

Today there was Daily Telegraph article on the option for new franchises to have a third class, between standard and first. Possibly this is similar to Chiltern's Business Zone class.

The article comes with out-of-touch quote from Bob Crow, as usual.

Why did you quote the RMT under the headline DFT propose third class of ticket?

Why did you not quote the DfT comment "A DfT spokesman said: “It is completely untrue and deliberately misleading to claim that this Government wants to introduce ‘third class’ fares.
“It absolutely does not: the minimum level of service is standard class and the Government is only interested in proposals from train operators that would improve, at the very least maintain, existing standards.”

You misleading posting smacks of the worst kind of gutter journalism, which is deprecated in this forum.

 

[Tiny Tim]

It doesn't make much sense to 'shoehorn' an extra class in between First and Standard. We don't need yet another option to deal with when booking, we want clarity not obfuscation.

 

[Clip]

Why did you quote the RMT under the headline DFT propose third class of ticket?

Why did you not quote the DfT comment "A DfT spokesman said: “It is completely untrue and deliberately misleading to claim that this Government wants to introduce ‘third class’ fares.
“It absolutely does not: the minimum level of service is standard class and the Government is only interested in proposals from train operators that would improve, at the very least maintain, existing standards.”

You misleading posting smacks of the worst kind of gutter journalism, which is deprecated in this forum.

Maybe because Mr Crow had misunderstood the whole issue, as it appears Lord Myner did

The DfT insisted this meant a class somewhere between standard and first – equivalent to airlines’ premium economy, a view which was not shared by critics including Lord Myners, the former Labour minister, who tabled the question in the House of Lords.

"I was astonished by the response which suggested there could be a cattle class carriage at the back or one for toffs at the front," he said

 

[Oliver]

Why did you quote the RMT under the headline DFT propose third class of ticket?

Why did you not quote the DfT comment "A DfT spokesman said: “It is completely untrue and deliberately misleading to claim that this Government wants to introduce ‘third class’ fares.
“It absolutely does not: the minimum level of service is standard class and the Government is only interested in proposals from train operators that would improve, at the very least maintain, existing standards.”

You misleading posting smacks of the worst kind of gutter journalism, which is deprecated in this forum.

If you thought the Telegraph story was poor, just take a glimpse at the Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-reintroduce-tier-service-trains-bad-be.html

Probably best to lie down in a darkened room for an hour to recover from such tripe.

 

[wintonian]

If you thought the Telegraph story was poor, just take a glimpse at the Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-reintroduce-tier-service-trains-bad-be.html

Probably best to lie down in a darkened room for an hour to recover from such tripe.

That picture of the first class dining car actually looks better than some of the accommodation going round the network today and not just thinking of pacers!

So we discover that there is nothing to prevent bidders from submitting a proposal for an additional class of travel. Can some one explain how this apparently means that the DfT are trying to re-instate low cost 3rd class accommodation? :roll:

I doubt there is anything to stop bidders from proposing to bring back BR sandwiches and selling them at an inflated cost, but do you see uproar about that?...

...Hang on isn't that what Rail Goumet already do?

 

[jopsuk]

As has already been mentioned, as far as I'm aware this has always been a possibility, ever since the first franchises were let...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Maybe because Mr Crow had misunderstood the whole issue, as it appears Lord Myner did

But you would think that people at quite a high level would have staff in their organisation to vet such matters first in detail, before their organisation puts forward comment on such matters. I cannot believe that this has happened in this day and age, which reflects very badly indeed upon them and leaves them open to ridicule by those totally opposed to them.

 

[NSEFAN]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. :roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Maybe because Mr Crow had misunderstood the issue.

Don't they still have a Political Commissariat at Unity House Oblast to explain matters these days ?

 

[northwichcat]

Stick a Pacer on the back of every train, there we go, third class.

Wouldn't 3+2 Desiro seating or equivalent be third class, making Pacer 3+2 seating fourth class?

 

[Roverman]

I think this is one where you have to read between the lines to work out exactly whats going on, this is a way to charge more for what will still basically be a seat on a train from Destination A to Destination B.

 

[HH]

Mr Crow understands it well enough; it was just another opportunity to create trouble. It's idiots like Myners that should be treated in a Clarkson style...

 

[transmanche]

Mind you a few years back a 'standing' class (coaches without or with limited seating) was talked about in some political corners as a way of providing cheap fares and increasing capacity on commuter routes

Well we do have this. Look at the SWT refurbished 455s - a reduction in seats to increase the standing area. (Not that I think it's a bad thing, it's a sensible decision where there's no possibility of additional capacity - and perfectly acceptable for metro routes.)

 

[jon0844]

It doesn't make much sense to 'shoehorn' an extra class in between First and Standard. We don't need yet another option to deal with when booking, we want clarity not obfuscation.

Not on most trains, but Intercity services? Why not when an airline might have four classes (and even more, given their complex coding system - meaning there are loads of restrictions for different ticket types).

I quite like the idea of a business/leisure first style ticket, as successfully used on some routes already. I'd like a first class seat, but would be willing to give up the other benefits (lounge, free meal etc).

I was quite looking forward to First doing this on the WCML, and will one day see what the business service is like on the Chiltern trains with it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Didn't GNER have this intermediate option at one stage, Silver Standard?

IIRC weren't GNER considered to run such a brilliant service it should be held up as an example to everyone else?

 

[junglejames]

I heard it was to stop all the complaints about having to buy standard class tickets, but having to suffer voyager class! Should also help once IEP comes along!! lol

 

[transmanche]

Didn't GNER have this intermediate option at one stage, Silver Standard?

See post #2.

 

[ainsworth74]

This isn't even resurrecting a 1950s idea, Eurostar services have three classes and I think have had them for quite some time.