Why so many ticket prices for a simple journey?

[Thumper Bill]

Having looked online for a ticket price for a simple return journey from Dovercourt to Chelmsford I was amazed by how many different prices dependant on time, railcard, class, if there is a werewolf drinking diesel in sainsbury's etc, why not simplify the whole thing so as to make it less confusing and charge a fair price to all so certain passenges are not subsidising others?

 

[RJ]

Having looked online for a ticket price for a simple return journey from Dovercourt to Chelmsford I was amazed by how many different prices dependant on time, railcard, class, if there is a werewolf drinking diesel in sainsbury's etc, why not simplify the whole thing so as to make it less confusing and charge a fair price to all so certain passenges are not subsidising others?

That one is rather tame to be honest. You have an Anytime Single/Return, Off Peak Day Return and Super Off Peak Day Single/Return, plus a First Class Single/Return. Relatively straightforward as things go.

Try booking a trip from Bishops Stortford to Peterborough

 

[Wath Yard]

So off peak travellers should pay the same as peak travellers, 1st class ticket holders should pay the same as standard class ticket holders and railcard holders the same as non railcard holders? Wouldn't be much point buying a railcard if that was the case, or waiting until off peak to travel.

 

[dvboy]

Try going from Gatwick Airport to London. So confusing.

 

[wintonian]

London Terminals - Birmingham New Stations should keep you busy - don't forget to also add the relevant railcard and PRIIV versions of the fares where relevant.

With Dovercourt to Chelmsford you have 1x single fare 1x super off day-peak return 1x off-peak day return and 1x anytime return, each of which will have different time restrictions.

You then have only 2 first class fares (single and return).

With all these 'base' fares you can then create the relevant railcard/ wheelchair user/ PRIV etc. fares.

as has been said that pales in comparison compared to some flows.

 

[Goatboy]

London Terminals - Birmingham New Stations should keep you busy - don't forget to also add the relevant railcard and PRIIV versions of the fares where relevant.

Is that an Offpeak Return route Chiltern Only that costs more than the same Offpeak Return route Any Permitted that I spy there?

 

[wintonian]

Is that an Offpeak Return route Chiltern Only that costs more than the same Offpeak Return route Any Permitted that I spy there?

Why have Chiltern got 2 fares for all most all walk-up ticket types (via High Wycombe and Chiltern only) both being more than the any permitted?

 

[Eagle]

Why have Chiltern got 2 fares for all most all walk-up ticket types (via High Wycombe and Chiltern only) both being more than the any permitted?

The two routes are actually slightly different—for example, with the via High Wycombe one one could go via Coventry (although why anyone would do that is beyond me).

 

[tony_mac]

It has been reported here before that the two fares are a fudge to deal with some problem with mobile ticketing (as I recall it, anyway)
The Any permitted tickets are much more heavily restricted than Chiltern's.

Bearing in mind Gatwick is such a busy international airport, I think the complexity of buying a ticket to London from there is a bit of an embarrassment.

 

[wintonian]

It has been reported here before that the two fares are a fudge to deal with some problem with mobile ticketing (as I recall it, anyway)
The Any permitted tickets are much more heavily restricted than Chiltern's

OP - I think here lies the answer!

 

[Goatboy]

Looking at the restriction, the Chiltern Only ticket isn't valid on the 19:03 Paddington to Penzance. Who'd have thought it

 

[SAPhil]

Bearing in mind Gatwick is such a busy international airport, I think the complexity of buying a ticket to London from there is a bit of an embarrassment.

IMO bearing in mind Gatwick is such a busy international airport, Gatwick station as a whole is bit of an embarrassment!

 

[Greeby]

I do agree that on some of these local flows where the difference between peak and off-peak is fairly small (£2.20 in the OP's example) that the peak price should be brought down and the off-peak ticket removed. Another example a bit more local to me would be Northampton's flows up to Birmingham and along the Trent Valley

 

[Be3G]

Indeed. My local station is Turkey Street, and if you happen to want to travel one stop to Theobalds Grove (which I have done on more than one occasion), you're still confronted with three different types of standard class return ticket! So much for the fares simplification…

 

[yorkie]

Indeed. My local station is Turkey Street, and if you happen to want to travel one stop to Theobalds Grove (which I have done on more than one occasion), you're still confronted with three different types of standard class return ticket! So much for the fares simplification…

Fares simplification was about creating 3 categories of ticket. In this case you have one fare (Anytime Day) in one of the categories (Anytime) and two fares in the Off Peak category (Off Peak Day and Super Off Peak Day) which is almost as simple as you can get*. If this was to be reduced to two types, this would only be achieved by abolishing the cheaper Super off Peak Day ticket.

Removing choice is bad for customers, as it results in passengers who would otherwise be able to purchase cheaper tickets being required to pay a higher price for flexibility they don't need.

* It can get simpler, there could be only one ticket type, Anytime Day (example) in which case there is no cheaper fare for travelling at particular times. Not a big problem on rural lines without a 'peak' flow, but this would be a major issue on, say, York-London and would cause me to never ever catch a train as I could not afford it.

 

[TUC]

Having looked online for a ticket price for a simple return journey from Dovercourt to Chelmsford I was amazed by how many different prices dependant on time, railcard, class, if there is a werewolf drinking diesel in sainsbury's etc, why not simplify the whole thing so as to make it less confusing and charge a fair price to all so certain passenges are not subsidising others?

So you would rather pay more just to keep things simple. How sad ...

 

[wintonian]

I do agree that on some of these local flows where the difference between peak and off-peak is fairly small (£2.20 in the OP's example) that the peak price should be brought down and the off-peak ticket removed. Another example a bit more local to me would be Northampton's flows up to Birmingham and along the Trent Valley

More likely:

We understand that people find the different time restrictions on some of our tickets confusing and it is with that in mind why we have decided to create a single fare type for short journeys where there is only a small difference in price.

By doing away with time restrictions on the journeys you do most often you can be assured of grater flexibility with this new simpler system and all without increasing the cost of your morning commute.

In other words lets do away with off-peak day returns on short journeys and charge people the unchanged anytime fare instead.

 

[Be3G]

Fares simplification was about creating 3 categories of ticket. In this case you have one fare (Anytime Day) in one of the categories (Anytime) and two fares in the Off Peak category (Off Peak Day and Super Off Peak Day) which is almost as simple as you can get*. If this was to be reduced to two types, this would only be achieved by abolishing the cheaper Super off Peak Day ticket.

Removing choice is bad for customers, as it results in passengers who would otherwise be able to purchase cheaper tickets being required to pay a higher price for flexibility they don't need.

* It can get simpler, there could be only one ticket type, Anytime Day (example) in which case there is no cheaper fare for travelling at particular times. Not a big problem on rural lines without a 'peak' flow, but this would be a major issue on, say, York-London and would cause me to never ever catch a train as I could not afford it.

Oh I know yorkie, I was being rhetorical. I understand the reason for those different fares being there, but at the same time, I'm in agreement with Greeby that with such short journeys where the price difference is so minor, it probably creates more confusion than it saves money (not that the two are comparable, but hopefully my vague point is clear).

On such a short journey, I doubt there're many people who will say to themselves ‘oh I must put off my journey up the road until the afternoon so I can save 20p!’, nor do I expect it to be a popular commute.

Also, I cannot say this for certain (perhaps someone who has a really old copy of the NFM can confirm?) but I have a feeling that years ago, there weren't even three types of return fare available for that journey anyway.

 

[Greeby]

More likely:



In other words lets do away with off-peak day returns on short journeys and charge people the unchanged anytime fare instead.

Well, that has happened September-January on MKC-NMP and MKC-LBK single flows for the third year running. Also, back in January the LM Only CDRs which stretched as far as WFJ-LIV, were withdrawn in favour of the SVR.