Not so Greater Anglia

[HH]

What strikes me is that the class 321's I believe are still the best GE have. Reliable old British workhorses. The 360's have aged badly. They have aged more in 7/6 years than the 321's have in 20 years.

I'd choose a 321 over anything any day. BREL knew how to build a train. Siemens don't.

Ken

Hmm. The dusty bins are reliable for their age, but the 360s are better last I looked. And they're more like 10 years old. They were certainly introduced some time before NX took over in April 2004.

What is true is that they could do with a refresh, but there are many GA units that need it more.

 

[D365]

Could the 321s receive a rebuild after the 317s have been done? Personally, I'd send the 21 360s, plus the 5 5-car HC units to LM after converting all to 350s, possibly replacing 323s for the north. This would be in return for a number of rebuilt 317s (ex-FCC 317/1 and ex-SEx 317/7s) and displaced 321/4s.

Sorry, gone way off... Would a 321 rebuild be appreciated?

 

[SprinterMan]

Could the 321s receive a rebuild after the 317s have been done? Personally, I'd send the 21 360s, plus the 5 5-car HC units to LM after converting to 350s, possibly replacing 323s for the north. This would be in return for a number of rebuilt 317s (ex-FCC 317/1 and ex-SEx 317/7s) and displaced 321/4s.

Sorry, gone way off... Would a 321 rebuild be appreciated?

321448 is currently at Wabtec receiving a similar rebuild to the 317s. A 321 rebuild would be very welcome indeed if it meant replacing the seats, as the current examples are just too low.

Adam

 

[iphone76]

And some are quite threadbare and very NSE retro. Here is a picture from the train I'm currently on. (Not sure if its come out as I'm on my phone).

 

[D365]

I meant same interiors as will be done on the 317s with air-con, and possibly new Electrostar traction... Pretty similar types, aren't they? (317-322, 1980s Mk3)

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

And some are quite threadbare and very NSE retro. Here is a picture from the train I'm currently on. (Not sure if its come out as I'm on my phone).

That shouldn't be around much longer as Clacton depot are doing an internal refresh on all the ex London Midland 321/4's. (421-437)

 

[pjnathanail]

The 170s could do with a refurb too-they are frankly disgusting!

 

[iphone76]

I know - those new grey interiors are much better. Such as shame some of the "green" 321s are not much better. But - the service has been brilliant for the past few months, so I really don't mind what the interior looks like.

 

[SprinterMan]

I know - those new grey interiors are much better. Such as shame some of the "green" 321s are not much better. But - the service has been brilliant for the past few months, so I really don't mind what the interior looks like.

It has been good, hasn't it. Much better than under NX. Everything seems to be clean and on time. It really is a nice change

Adam

 

[iphone76]

Totally. I have even cancelled my twitter account as I no longer need to find out why I am sitting at Shenfield or somewhere else Only bad thing, as I may have mentioned before is that I don't have any travel vouchers to put towards next year's ticket. Keep it up GA and win the next franchise.

 

[dk1]

The 170s could do with a refurb too-they are frankly disgusting!

The 2-car sets have had a deep clean recently but the whole fleet are long overdue a bit of a spruce up. The GA 3-car 170s have been worked really hard & are now over 13yrs old. Only the 50 car has had anything done to it when the mid-section 1st class was replaced by standard back in 2004 at the same time the buffet area of the centre car was removed & replaced by standard seating.

 

[tbtc]

Personally, I'd send the 21 360s, plus the 5 5-car HC units to LM after converting to 350s

Does anyone know whether you could run a long (eight/twelve coach) EMU made up of 360 cabs at each end with a mixture of 350 + 360 coaches in the middle?

For example

360 360 350 350 + 350 350 360 360

That way you'd get the bigger wider cab areas for drivers, with the corridor connection of the 350 between the two units.

The the moment LM need longer trains on Euston duties (rather than just four coaches), so 360s wouldn't be so useful (more suited to Liverpool duties?), but slotting 350s and 360s together may not be mechanically sound?

 

[IanXC]

Does anyone know whether you could run a long (eight/twelve coach) EMU made up of 360 cabs at each end with a mixture of 350 + 360 coaches in the middle?

For example

360 360 350 350 + 350 350 360 360

That way you'd get the bigger wider cab areas for drivers, with the corridor connection of the 350 between the two units.

The the moment LM need longer trains on Euston duties (rather than just four coaches), so 360s wouldn't be so useful (more suited to Liverpool duties?), but slotting 350s and 360s together may not be mechanically sound?

The trouble with these kinds of plans is what happens when you end up forming a train of vehicles in the following order:

360 360 350 350 + 360 360 350 350

 

[Roverman]

I used this TOC, travelling from Billericay to Liverpool Street every day for 2 weeks in August when my mother was in UCH and it ran superbly. Admittedly this was in between the Olympic and Paralympic games so that may have had an effect but all trains were on time they were clean and communication was good.

 

[jopsuk]

The trouble with these kinds of plans is what happens when you end up forming a train of vehicles in the following order:

360 360 350 350 + 360 360 350 350

Or for even more fun (for the drivers...) 350 350 360 360 + 360 360 350 350

There's some Japanese EMU classes use assymetric units (full cab at one end, corridor cab at the other), but these are typically a long sub class with a short sub class used to boost capacity/provide a through service onto a quiet line. Because of the way they get used, it is easy to make sure the corridor cabs are at the correct end.

 

[dk1]

The 170s could do with a refurb too-they are frankly disgusting!

You talked it up. 170204 out today sporting new specked blue carpet throughout & new charcoal colour in doorways. Well done Greater Anglia for doing something in months that NXEA seemed incapable of.

 

[SprinterMan]

You talked it up. 170204 out today sporting new specked blue carpet throughout & new charcoal colour in doorways. Well done Greater Anglia for doing something in months that NXEA seemed incapable of.

Wow, sounds great

Any pictures?

Adam

 

[jon0844]

Where is ginger these days? I miss the constant slagging off of GA - a TOC that seems to be doing an awful lot to show its good intentions for future franchise bids.

 

[O L Leigh]

Please, don't.

Don't get me wrong, he's a lovely chap but wearing on the patience. A real one-trick pony I'm afraid.

O L Leigh

 

[dk1]

Wow, sounds great

Any pictures?

Adam

Had a quick turn round at bothe ends today. Lots of passengers so felt a bit daft taking photos. Has improved the train & the cleaners where saying that its not throwing up loads of fluff like some re-carpeted trains.

 

[ginger]

Please, don't.

Don't get me wrong, he's a lovely chap but wearing on the patience. A real one-trick pony I'm afraid.

O L Leigh

ah bless! If shouting for desperately needed investment against pure cynical tax collection means I am a one trick pony then, so be it! I am happy with that!

Have is improved in 9 months? In places.......here are my thoughts (and some are positive)

Network Rail under Dave Ward, seemed to have got their act together. Fault fixing is quicker, and moving the NR and TOC operation together is clearly improving communication therefore quicker responses to problems. However, this was not a TOC idea but stipulated by the DFT in the franchise - it is a very sensible move

Performance - the above has had an effect as appx 70% of all delays were attributable to NR so that's good but their are still numerous daily train failures which either cause serious overcrowding or inappropriate stock being used just to appease the PPM. An aging fleet will inevitably continue to cause these issues........rush hour is still appalling though! The last 3 weeks have been as bad as anything NXEA managed so expect the figures to fall right back......

The trains.......well the so called deep clean.....as one experienced member of staff said to me "it is like polishing a terd.......when you start with the filth that was in them nothing short of ripping out the interiors will do"......I have a gallery of over 100 examples of utter filth AFTER the so called deep clean was carried out. Overall both in and out the trains are filthy! The only exception is when a 321 comes back from Donny after its repaint.....after 3 weeks it is capped in filth. The interiors are little picked daily but NOT cleaned as other TOCs do. Cheap nasty cost cutting from Abelio I am afraid!

We all know they need replacing or ripping out but it wont happen during this 29 months tax raising exercise.

In short, slightly better from a regular passengers viewpoint but the TOC issues with the so called Fleet department standards are still there for all to see!

And I have some absolute horror stories abouts bullying revenue collectors but thats no surprise - Abelio have just adopted the Northern Rail approach......

Overall should they be given the 15 year investment franchise? No.....they are cost cutters short cut takers whose sole focus is marketing and tax collection.

Will it improve in the next 21 months? Doubt it but remain open to be pleasantly surprised.....

 

[jon0844]

Slick marketing and raking in the cash seems to work for Virgin.

 

[ginger]

Slick marketing and raking in the cash seems to work for Virgin.

works on the back of major investment in both infrastructure and new trains! GA is all about managed declined of the assets while sweating them to death I am afraid.......

I have NO issue with any professional TOC investing and marketing a successful professional railway but to do it when everything is on its last legs, and investing nothing is scandalous! and doesn't work by the way......

 

[HH]

Within the current way DfT runs franchises, there's little chance of a TOC investing in a 29 month franchise when it is the successor operator who will reap all the benefit.

Still, as noted already, Abellio have done things in less than 1 year that NX couldn't manage in 7.

 

[jon0844]

works on the back of major investment in both infrastructure and new trains! GA is all about managed declined of the assets while sweating them to death I am afraid.......

I have NO issue with any professional TOC investing and marketing a successful professional railway but to do it when everything is on its last legs, and investing nothing is scandalous! and doesn't work by the way......

I don't see the fleet as being that bad. GA has some brand new trains, along with trains that seem to do just fine on FCC (317s, 321s, our 313s to your 315s). All solid, reliable, trains that are far from life expired or on their last legs.

GA isn't in a position to order a new fleet of trains. I have no idea if the next franchise will require new trains, but I can see that many will be replaced in the next 10 years or so - and then cascaded, as I doubt any are fit for scrap yet. Perhaps the 315s, although if they're not dangerously corroded, I feel they could be refurbished and used for a while longer.

One problem that has always seemed to be a problem for as long as I've been commuting is the maintenance - primarily the work done from Ilford, where there was apparently the need to just bodge repairs to get trains back out.. therefore putting off major work that was inevitable when you couldn't patch things up any more. I guess FCC has done better with Hornsey. I have no idea what GA has been doing to improve this, as that will make a big difference to how the fleets keep working.

 

[jon0844]

I think the only valid complaint was the release of the 317/7s and trying to run a service with few backups (thus short forming some trains).

However, if a few short formations is the price to pay for having saved a load of money leasing them - which has enabled GA to spend that money on proper deep cleans and refreshes, I am sure that many people would actually think it was a good thing.

 

[O L Leigh]

ah bless! If shouting for desperately needed investment against pure cynical tax collection means I am a one trick pony then, so be it! I am happy with that!

Yes, but that is pretty much the ONLY thing you do, and in terms that are not far off rhetoric.

O L Leigh

 

[HH]

RVAR/PRM TSI is going to require a lot of spend on some units I would have thought (321s, 317s for example). That's by 1 January 2020 IIRC.

If I were bidding for the TOC I'd either want to replace those units with something newer or refurbish them fully to gain the passenger benefits.

 

[Aictos]

Within the current way DfT runs franchises, there's little chance of a TOC investing in a 29 month franchise when it is the successor operator who will reap all the benefit.

Still, as noted already, Abellio have done things in less than 1 year that NX couldn't manage in 7.

Indeed, at the last Twitter session with their MD he's stated that in January 2013 Oyster will be extended to Broxbourne.

Now while Greater Anglia did say Hertford East would get Oyster, for whatever reason they're not doing this BUT least its being extended to Broxbourne.

Now if only Potters Bar on the GN was able to use Oyster on FCC services....

 

[jon0844]

I can't wait until Oyster is extended to WGC on FCC. But, I am not sure it's going to happen now.