Passengers who refuse to allow others to sit next to them

[Coolguy22468]

The train I regularly catch is often gets crammed and when this happens most people sitting in the aisle move over to the window seat if possible to let people sit down with the exception of muslim women who refuse to because some won't sit next to men. Can anyone tell me if 1, they are allowed to do this, 2 has anyone had this happen to them and 3, what is the best way to go about this?

 

[district]

I'd imagine that as long as a ticket was held in the class of travel you intended to sit in, and the seats involved were not reserved then you should be able to do that.

I don't think a passenger can their religion to prevent them from sitting next to someone and then use this to prohibit you accessing and using the seat - otherwise everyone would claim that!

 

[Wath Yard]

If they refuse to allow you to occupy an empty seat, after being asked politely, then climb over them to get to it. It never ceases to amaze me how many people, of all religions and races, feel they shouldn't have to sit next to a member of the public on public transport.

 

[route:oxford]

The train I regularly catch is often gets crammed and when this happens most people sitting in the aisle move over to the window seat if possible to let people sit down with the exception of muslim women who refuse to because some won't sit next to men. Can anyone tell me if 1, they are allowed to do this, 2 has anyone had this happen to them and 3, what is the best way to go about this?

Tell them you are pre-operative transgender, you've had the boobs done but not sorted downstairs yet so still a woman. Then sit down.

Become friends, then you've got a guaranteed seat every morning.

Problem solved.

 

[Darandio]

Tell them you are pre-operative transgender, you've had the boobs done but not sorted downstairs yet so still a woman. Then sit down.

Become friends, then you've got a guaranteed seat every morning.

Problem solved.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

There was a row a few years back about a bus driver in Sheffield who refused to let a Muslim lady on who showed a pass as he didn't know if the pass belonged to her. Religion is a lifestyle choice and should not confer any special status to it's adherers. When faced with the general public such beliefs should fit round the general public and never the other way round. You don't want to sit next to men on public transport then don't sit or use alternative travel, you want to cover your face on public transport then pay a cash fare. Being a biker is a lifestyle choice yet I am sure they would be challenged if they showed a pass while wearing a crash helmet. One law for ALL no exceptions.

 

[Trog]

Religion is a lifestyle choice and should not confer any special status to it's adherers. When faced with the general public such beliefs should fit round the general public and never the other way round.

Agreed if your invisible friend does not want you to sit next to men, then he should provide more seats or arrange for a woman passenger to sit next to you each morning.

 

[Coolguy22468]

Cheers for all this, I have had one claim she the seat might be reserved for her friend but she wasn't sure if they were coming. If I spoke to the guard if they refused to move would they make them move?

 

[district]

I don't like or buy this whole ''oh, my friend is coming'', or ''that seat is reserved'' (when there is no actual seat reservation) nonsense. Especially if the train is busy with people standing.

Putting bags on seats doesn't wash with me either - on the first off peak high speed train to London each day the train is full and standing. Imagine my dismay when a holdall was placed across two seats. No-one moved it when I asked who it is so it promptly found itself in the overhead storage space. (Although should I have reported it as unattended baggage as no-one came forward to claim it?)

 

[asylumxl]

Have you any actual evidence that they refuse to move for that reason? Have you actually asked or is it based on an assumption? Commuters do not like sitting next to others irrespective of race or religion and I have daily experience of them. If these people claim that as their reason, it is purely an excuse.

I also think you'll find you probably sit next to plenty of Muslim women who do not hold such views and you were totally unaware of their religions views. It's not even a race thing, these people are simply extremists.

 

[maniacmartin]

(Although should I have reported it as unattended baggage as no-one came forward to claim it?)

Please don't. Someone did that on a train I was on recently and it delayed the train whilst it was investigated

 

[district]

Please don't. Someone did that on a train I was on recently and it delayed the train whilst it was investigated

If no-one is claiming ownership of a bag, then I'd much rather be delayed then injured/killed.

 

[wintonian]

If they refuse to allow you to occupy an empty seat, after being asked politely, then climb over them to get to it. It never ceases to amaze me how many people, of all religions and races, feel they shouldn't have to sit next to a member of the public on public transport.

I'm with you on this one.

Although I have seen it done and joined in the ensuring argument about reserving seats for people who will be boarding at Keighley, I'm too scared to sit on other peoples shopping bags myself.

Mind you if I sat on the suitcases they plonk on seats down here I would a, be dangling over the seat in front as well, thus defeating the object and b, look like a right plonker.

 

[maniacmartin]

What's most odd is that the train wasn't evacuated whilst it was investigated, so it was still a potential hazard whilst we were waiting for staff to attend anyway
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
On the tube, this is a trait common to most females: They rarely give their seat up yet expect males to do so, or if two people are heading for the same seat, in most cases the male will graciously offer it but the opposite is rarely true.

 

[Coolguy22468]

Have you any actual evidence that they refuse to move for that reason? Have you actually asked or is it based on an assumption? Commuters do not like sitting next to others irrespective of race or religion and I have daily experience of them. If these people claim that as their reason, it is purely an excuse.

I also think you'll find you probably sit next to plenty of Muslim women who do not hold such views and you were totally unaware of their religions views. It's not even a race thing, these people are simply extremists.

Some are ok, its mostly the passengers who wear head coverings who object, I think it is an excuse because I have known taxi drivers force non-muslim women to sit in the back because of religion. I have asked and they just say no.

 

[SS4]

I ask politely and if that fails ask more forcefully and lastly barge past. The laws of physics are something they cannot ignore as a big, tall, muttering guy approaches
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There's a lot to be said for righteous indignation although it's important to delineate between refusal and reluctance. I'm often guilty of the latter but not the former.
Generally I'll downsize from a four table to a two table/two seats if I see a busy station/group approaching to avoid sitting next to someone but it doesn't help that seats are too narrow especially on narrow stock like the Pendo

 

[wintonian]

I ask politely and if that fails ask more forcefully and lastly barge past. The laws of physics are something they cannot ignore as a big, tall, muttering guy approaches
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There's a lot to be said for righteous indignation although it's important to delineate between refusal and reluctance. I'm often guilty of the latter but not the former.
Generally I'll downsize from a four table to a two table/two seats if I see a busy station/group approaching to avoid sitting next to someone but it doesn't help that seats are too narrow especially on narrow stock like the Pendo

That’s fine except when most of the tables in the coach have no-one sitting at them and a party get on and insist on sitting at the one you are sitting at. That’s happened to me on a SWT 444 before. What was wrong with all the other tables I don't know. :-x

Of-course if their was a reasonable number of people on the train I wouldn't have sat there, but I see nothing wrong with taking advantage when hardly anyone else is on-board.

 

[SS4]

That’s fine except when most of the tables in the coach have no-one sitting at them and a party get on and insist on sitting at the one you are sitting at. That’s happened to me on a SWT 444 before. What was wrong with all the other tables I don't know. :-x

Can't say it's ever happened to me but that's pretty rude. Especially if n-1 of them sit there anyway and have a conversation across the aisle or make it their mission to make the situation awkward enough for you to leave.

Of-course if their was a reasonable number of people on the train I wouldn't have sat there, but I see nothing wrong with taking advantage when hardly anyone else is on-board.

Seconded (apart from the misuse of there ). I usually manage to grab a table on LM 350s to London at BHM and keep it until Northampton or sometimes MKC/WFJ.

 

[BestWestern]

There was a row a few years back about a bus driver in Sheffield who refused to let a Muslim lady on who showed a pass as he didn't know if the pass belonged to her. Religion is a lifestyle choice and should not confer any special status to it's adherers. When faced with the general public such beliefs should fit round the general public and never the other way round. You don't want to sit next to men on public transport then don't sit or use alternative travel, you want to cover your face on public transport then pay a cash fare. Being a biker is a lifestyle choice yet I am sure they would be challenged if they showed a pass while wearing a crash helmet. One law for ALL no exceptions.

Superb answer, I fully agree.

Now, if only we could persuade the powers that be... :roll:

 

[Nat the Ned]

things like this make my blood boil!! If they don't want to sit next to a man for whatever brainwashed religous reason then THEY should get up!!!

 

[Coolguy22468]

Do they still have women only waiting rooms? In cases like this it would work quite well. It does seem a shame that they refuse to sit next to men because it is one of the things that keeps them apart from everyone else.

 

[richw]

This makes me think of discrimination bits.
Are the train operators discriminating against their religion by making them share a carriage with men, or is the religion discriminating against men by not allowing the men to sit with the women?

 

[Nat the Ned]

This makes me think of discrimination bits.
Are the train operators discriminating against their religion by making them share a carriage with men, or is the religion discriminating against men by not allowing the men to sit with the women?

Quite simply they are not being MADE to do anything!!!

 

[BestWestern]

This makes me think of discrimination bits.
Are the train operators discriminating against their religion by making them share a carriage with men, or is the religion discriminating against men by not allowing the men to sit with the women?

We do not, and thank goodness cannot, go down that road in this country. We are not a muslim country, therefore we do not arrange our public facilities around muslim beliefs or requirements. To do so would be discriminatory against the non-muslim majority of the population. If that is a problem then there are other countries which may be more appropriate places to live.

 

[jon0844]

If no-one is claiming ownership of a bag, then I'd much rather be delayed then injured/killed.

Have to agree. If you ask if anyone owns a bag and nobody responds it sounds like negligence if you just ignore it.

 

[Coolguy22468]

We do not, and thank goodness cannot, go down that road in this country. We are not a muslim country, therefore we do not arrange our public facilities around muslim beliefs or requirements. To do so would be discriminatory against the non-muslim majority of the population. If that is a problem then there are other countries which may be more appropriate places to live.

I wouldn't be that harsh, its just a train seat.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Religion is a lifestyle choice and should not confer any special status to it's adherers. When faced with the general public such beliefs should fit round the general public and never the other way round. You don't want to sit next to men on public transport then don't sit or use alternative travel, you want to cover your face on public transport then pay a cash fare. Being a biker is a lifestyle choice yet I am sure they would be challenged if they showed a pass while wearing a crash helmet. One law for ALL no exceptions.

I wonder what you mean by "should" in this extract.
Perhaps you are referring to a statute (or similar) which imposes certain constraints on citizens, or, perhaps, you are simply expressing a personal preference or belief.

If the former, then it would be a help me if you could remind us which statute requires a personal belief to "fit around the general public" and "one law for all".
If the latter, then I apologise for for the challenge, but if you are content to express a personal view about how others express their beliefs of what is true (which you have done), and also claim "one law for all", then I'll guess that you are also content that others will express their personal view about how others express theirs. That position, of course, leads to pluralism - differing beliefs pertaining simultaneously to the same life, fact, situation or statement.

For my part, I have every respect for any expression of profound faith, and have enjoyed the unexpected company of fellow travellers on some of my railway journeys who have shared their beliefs and faiths with me, much to my benefit. I hope I am lucky enough to still meet more people with such profound and committed beliefs and faiths who are generous enough to share some of their philosophy and their experiences with me.

As for seats, I remember giving up my seat earler this year so that I could travel in the vestibule with a Rabbi who was kind enough to share some of his photos, stories and practices with me. Over the years, I've given up my seat in order to talk with a Tibetan Buddhist, some Catholics, some Hindus, a CofE vicar and athiests (and also enjoying profound discussion with others while remainging at my seat - perhaps the most surprising was one of East Coast's crew discussing the "Tibetan Book of the Dead"). But I can't recall any of them telling me what passengers "should do".
Not one.

 

[wintonian]

I wonder what you mean by "should" in this extract.
Perhaps you are referring to a statute (or similar) which imposes certain constraints on citizens, or, perhaps, you are simply expressing a personal preference or belief.

If the former, then it would be a help me if you could remind us which statute requires a personal belief to "fit around the general public" and "one law for all".
If the latter, then I apologise for for the challenge, but if you are content to express a personal view about how others express their beliefs of what is true (which you have done), and also claim "one law for all", then I'll guess that you are also content that others will express their personal view about how others express theirs. That position, of course, leads to pluralism - differing beliefs pertaining simultaneously to the same life, fact, situation or statement.

For my part, I have every respect for any expression of profound faith, and have enjoyed the unexpected company of fellow travellers on some of my railway journeys who have shared their beliefs and faiths with me, much to my benefit. I hope I am lucky enough to still meet more people with such profound and committed beliefs and faiths who are generous enough to share some of their philosophy and their experiences with me.

As for seats, I remember giving up my seat earler this year so that I could travel in the vestibule with a Rabbi who was kind enough to share some of his photos, stories and practices with me. Over the years, I've given up my seat in order to talk with a Tibetan Buddhist, some Catholics, some Hindus, a CofE vicar and athiests (and also enjoying profound discussion with others while remainging at my seat - perhaps the most surprising was one of East Coast's crew discussing the "Tibetan Book of the Dead"). But I can't recall any of them telling me what passengers "should do".
Not one.

I was waiting for someone to share this view point with us.

 

[Rational Plan]

Seat Hoggers were my main irritant when I used to commute to Richmond and Putney.

With their briefcases, coats and laptops spread about to form a defensive ring. The sighing and giving evil looks when you dare to sit next to them. But in the end as a train fills they can't keep people at bay. Though some tried.

It's the evening thats worse. In the morning because it so busy people are less likely to spread about. But in the evening they seem to think that just because the train is only 90% full, they should keep one seat free.

 

[Starmill]

If no-one is claiming ownership of a bag, then I'd much rather be delayed then injured/killed.

In which case: take out your phone, pretend to dial and "Hello, I'd like to report an unattended item which has been left on a train." - very loudly. That'll sort 'em.