Greater Anglia InterCity Service

[neodoughnut]

In reply to BaldRick, as I have also already brought up on here, aside from a fast COL-IPS-NRW Service the best way to speed up timings is replacing the current IC stock with a modern EMU. The current arrangement of 90s + MK3s has much slower acceleration and much longer dwell times than that of the 360s. There used to be a 170 booked to run from IPS to LST non-stop in 58 mins at around 8am a few years ago. I know the 360s are not particularly comfortable, but usinf them as an example I could see timings of just over an hour from LST to IPS calling at COL only. I also agree with dropping Diss from one of the IC services.

 

[Bald Rick]

From memory we ran a 360 (as a proxy for an AC 444) through the timetable model on the current stopping pattern, and it saved 5 min LST-NRW. The saving purely due to rolling stock is lower with a limited stop service as there are fewer opportunities to accelerate.

Dwell times are difficult, improbably due to the number of cycle users and the DVT arrangement. Sort that out and another couple of minutes are saved.

 

[johnnyp_360]

Would power doors on the mk3 coaches improve dwell times considerably? i.e. saving the dispatcher or guard running up and down the platform closing the slam-doors that some people can't seem to get the hang of closing?

 

[150001]

The Class 90s are excellent; however the Mk3s would benefit from "Chilternising!"

 

[neodoughnut]

Power doors on the MK3s might improve things as there are instances when the Guard has to go and close the door at the other end of the train at places like Manningtree where its mostly self dispatch.

I think the best 'realistic' solution in the short-term is new, comfortable stock similar to the 444 as the layout is good and could be coupled up to form 10-car trains, not to mention much lower dwell times and better acceleration.

In an ideal world, I would love to see something similar the Pendolinos, but that might be a bit overkill for the line as it would need EPS and upgraded to 125 running, and we all know how much Network Rail would rather avoid increasing line speeds.

Considering the journey from LST - NRW is just under 2 hours on a good day, I'm really surprised that the journey is still classed as IC and still has IC stock when many other journeys to large towns which take approx the same time all have normal commuter stock, such as to Portsmouth, Southampton, Weymouth, Cambridge, Kings Lynn, Lewes, Eastbourne, Chichester, etc.

 

[F1Ken]

Give them a refurb.

If I had it my own way they would still be running Class 86's with Intercity Swallow Livery! What a lovely Loco. Miss them dearly. Don't miss the MK2s though.

When the 90's first arrived they were absolutely had it but the reliability has improved.

Still the 86's were better.

Ken

 

[dk1]

Give them a refurb.

If I had it my own way they would still be running Class 86's with Intercity Swallow Livery! What a lovely Loco. Miss them dearly. Don't miss the MK2s though.

When the 90's first arrived they were absolutely had it but the reliability has improved.

Still the 86's were better.

Ken

Not from a drivers point of view.

 

[captainbigun]

Not from a drivers point of view.

Depends which drivers I guess! Maybe not so much cans but you'd find a lot of WC men take the notcher over a skoda.

 

[RobShipway]

From reading this thread, it seems that the Great Anglis line could either do with Class 395/IEP trains or Baby Pendolino's?

 

[Manchester77]

From reading this thread, it seems that the Great Anglis line could either do with Class 395/IEP trains or Baby Pendolino's?

it'd be wasted though. with the number of stops and level crossings speed is limited to 110 mph (i think)
we could do with an AC version of the class 444 (344)

 

[RobShipway]

it'd be wasted though. with the number of stops and level crossings speed is limited to 110 mph (i think)
we could do with an AC version of the class 444 (344)

There is level crossing on the GWNL, but that does not stop the trains from doing 125mph. I think it is more likel that it is track condition that limiting trains to 110mph and with a tilting train I am sure that speeds up to 125mph would be able to be reached on the GE, wouldn't they?

 

[ainsworth74]

Level crossings are an issue I can't remember exactly why but someone on here has explained it before. But even ignoring that how exactly do you propose to fit 125mph expresses around 100mph commuter services and 75mph (and less) freight services of which there are a lot on the GEML? One of the biggest obsticales to increasing speeds on the GEML is the capacity isn't sufficient to support 125mph running.

 

[Manchester77]

it would require major investment (i think it was mentioned earlier) and a massive amount of money to upgrade the GEML to 125 mph let alone 140 mph

EDIT:

As indicated above it's the infrastructure that's holding back speed not the rolling stock. You could deploy Eurostar's on the route* and the top speed would still be around 100-110mph. Until the infrastructure under goes significant enhancment you're not going to be getting much more speed on that route.

* Well you couldn't as I doubt the power supplies could stand up to it without significant enhancement.

on another thread

 

[MidnightFlyer]

6tph plus freight (which should be reduced when the curve north of Ipswich opens) is the current off-peak service directionally between Shenfield and Witham (and 5tph plus freight north thereof to Colchester), which all have slightly staggered calling patters (e.g. Chelmsford has 5tph each way but Hatfield Peveral has only 1). Intermediate services use 321s or 360s, both 100mph max only. You'd certainly struggle to get 125mph for any great length south of Colchester.

I still think an AC 444 is perfect for this route - possibly 2x5-car on each service. Some might not like me saying this, but I wouldn't consider Norwich-London to be InterCity I'm afraid, I think a lot of the traffic is generated by Colchester and Ipswich.

 

[Charlie2555]

Why does everyone want 444s? They're not fantastic trains, give me a 90 and Mark IIIs any day!

 

[ainsworth74]

Why does everyone want 444s? They're not fantastic trains, give me a 90 and Mark IIIs any day!

They're the logical replacement (or something in the same style) for the 90s and Mk3s when the time comes.

 

[eastdyke]

They're the logical replacement (or something in the same style) for the 90s and Mk3s when the time comes.

When was the last time that GEML got new stock (as opposed to 'hand me downs') ?

 

[SprinterMan]

When was the last time that GEML got new stock (as opposed to 'hand me downs') ?

The Class 360s in 2003/2004 and Class 170s in 2001/2002.

Adam

 

[eastdyke]

The Class 360s in 2003/2004 and Class 170s in 2001/2002.

Adam

They hardly count!!
The 360's have only ever rarely appeared in Norwich and the use of 170's 'under the wires' was short lived both initially ex Yarmouth/Norwich and more latterly ex Lowestoft/Peterborough.

I should have qualified my posed question to 'principal stock' -

 

[Manchester77]

Idk when they got them but wouldn't it be when he get the ex-VWC class 90s and mark 3s
I think they came in 2004/5 around the time of 'one'
In 2008/9 they were due to get extra mark 3s to strengthen services

 

[SprinterMan]

Idk when they got them but wouldn't it be when he get the ex-VWC class 90s and mark 3s
I think they came in 2004/5 around the time of 'one'
In 2008/9 they were due to get extra mark 3s to strengthen services

None of those were new, all of them were "Hand-me-downs" from VWC.

Adam

 

[jon0844]

Any new trains should be 125-140mph capable for future proofing (line upgrades, cascades etc) even if they are re-geared for 100-110mph running initially.

What class of train is guaranteed never to move about in the future? Very few I'd expect.

 

[captainbigun]

Why would you buy a high speed capable train for a route that is never ever going to be more than 100mph. Being capable of 125+ is going to be considerably more expensive. It's fairly clear to most that there's no money to be had for anything other than essentials.

The GE is not a primary route and never will be. People need to get a grip of this. Norwich is not a special destination and does to warrant a full IC type service. It won't get better than it is now bar a bit of shuffling around the stops.

New stock is probably unlikely now in the next franchise. I'd expect to see the Mk3s go through Wabtec for power doors and other mods with the 90s being replaced by new build locos. It would be nice to get new units to maximise passenger carrying space but the funds aren't available.

 

[MCR247]

Any new trains should be 125-140mph capable for future proofing (line upgrades, cascades etc) even if they are re-geared for 100-110mph running initially.

What class of train is guaranteed never to move about in the future? Very few I'd expect.

Thameslink and crossrail well hopefully IMO

 

[Manchester77]

Any new trains should be 125-140mph capable for future proofing (line upgrades, cascades etc) even if they are re-geared for 100-110mph running initially.

What class of train is guaranteed never to move about in the future? Very few I'd expect.

I think all intercity trains should have that kind of future proofing but i dont think the pacer and sprinter replacements should be 140 mph capable. I'd say the 140 mph for intercity and 110 mph for medium distence and then shorter distence 90 - 100 mph idk

I don't think the 345s will move off crossrail or the southeast

 

[F1Ken]

I'd expect to see the Mk3s go through Wabtec for power doors and other mods with the 90s being replaced by new build locos. It would be nice to get new units to maximise passenger carrying space but the funds aren't available.

What options are their at the moment for a new loco. Who is building them what are they? Sorry to sound misinformed I'm stuck in the BR era off trains.

Ken

 

[sprinterguy]

What options are their at the moment for a new loco. Who is building them what are they? Sorry to sound misinformed I'm stuck in the BR era off trains.

Ken

Bombardier are reported to be offering a version of their TRAXX design for the UK market.

 

[F1Ken]

Bombardier are reported to be offering a version of their TRAXX design for the UK market.

They would look quite nice in the animation pulling a rake off Mk3s. It could work. Buying new locos instead off new trains is cheaper the Great Eastern mainline is not really suitable for Fast express trains.

Interesting few years ahead I reckon. The 90's can't go on for ever but they can last a little longer. They do look tired though the poor old things. Like a man in his 70's forced to work.

Ken

 

[Goatboy]

Considering the journey from LST - NRW is just under 2 hours on a good day, I'm really surprised that the journey is still classed as IC and still has IC stock when many other journeys to large towns which take approx the same time all have normal commuter stock, such as to Portsmouth, Southampton, Weymouth, Cambridge, Kings Lynn, Lewes, Eastbourne, Chichester, etc.

It's surprising but should be welcomed. Journeys of that length SHOULD have IC stock. It's good that Anglia has it and the fact people travelling all the way to Weymouth must put up without it is not a reason to deny the people of East Anglia IC trains for IC services.

 

[AndyLandy]

It seems to me that the class 90 fleet are starting to age having been passed over from Virgin & EWS(?).

According to a recent issue of RAIL magazine, the GA 90s are some of the most reliable trains in the country right now (along with the Voyagers, apparently). They certainly don't need replacing any time soon.

I daresay the mk3s could do with an overhaul and unless there's some plan for DDA-compliant stock by 2019, I'd have thought "Chilternising" them would be an ideal way forward.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Considering the journey from LST - NRW is just under 2 hours on a good day, I'm really surprised that the journey is still classed as IC and still has IC stock when many other journeys to large towns which take approx the same time all have normal commuter stock, such as to Portsmouth, Southampton, Weymouth, Cambridge, Kings Lynn, Lewes, Eastbourne, Chichester, etc.

I wouldn't call the 444s commuter stock, they're still 23m vehicles with 2+2 seating and end plug-doors. Running 450s on the long distance routes is a right menace though. I got subjected to a 450 a few weeks ago, SOU-WAT. I pity anyone who was riding that wretched thing all the way from Weymouth!