If Penalty Fares are for "honest mistakes"

[jopsuk]

Shouldn't FGW be prosecuting this moron?

Yes, he has posted a full picture of his PF notice, complete with his home address on a public site and then boasted that he'd bought the child's ticket because he's a "#cheapscate" and "#notpaying".

 

[khib70]

Shouldn't FGW be prosecuting this moron?

Yes, he has posted a full picture of his PF notice, complete with his home address on a public site and then boasted that he'd bought the child's ticket because he's a "#cheapscate" and "#notpaying".

What a jerk

His hashtags seem to indicate intent to avoid the fare, and if I were FGW I'd be on the phone to the lawyers.

He deserves a nice fine and a criminal record, but he probably won't get the hefty boot up the backside he also richly deserves.....

 

[Ferret]

Shouldn't FGW be prosecuting this moron?

Yes, he has posted a full picture of his PF notice, complete with his home address on a public site and then boasted that he'd bought the child's ticket because he's a "#cheapscate" and "#notpaying".

They can't prosecute him now as they've (incorrectly in my opinion) already issued a UFN. Of course, if the UFN isn't paid, then they can launch Court proceedings. But until then, decision made by RPI, and that's the end of it.

 

[gooner88]

Well taking into consideration he is under 18 that could explain the issuing of the PFN rather then him being reported, i know some companies will prosecute though the youth courts but not all. But all PFN's will add up until he turns 18 then its open season for the FGW RP team

 

[khib70]

They can't prosecute him now as they've (incorrectly in my opinion) already issued a UFN. Of course, if the UFN isn't paid, then they can launch Court proceedings. But until then, decision made by RPI, and that's the end of it.

Sorry Ferret, you obviously know a great deal more about this than I do, so forgive me if these are silly questions.....

But surely the deliberate purchase of a child ticket by an adult is clear intention to avoid paying the correct fare? I would imagine that even an idiot like this knows how old he is.

Secondly, if someone is issued a UFN/penalty fare, and then subsequently goes on a public forum and brags about avoiding prosecution. (I'm taling hypothetically here, not necessarily about this case) then that would be self-incrimination and grounds for further action, no? I'm genuinely unaware of the rules and regulations about this.

Thirdly, if you don't mind saying, what do you think should have happened here/what would you have done?

 

[ainsworth74]

But surely the deliberate purchase of a child ticket by an adult is clear intention to avoid paying the correct fare?

He's not an adult yet and that must surely be the only thing that saved him from prosecution because it'd be a slam dunk surely?

 

[nedchester]

He is under the age of 18 (in fact he is 16) so unlikely to get prosecuted.

Now I am going to be honest here but many kids will try and get a childs ticket whilst slightly over age. I am sure quite a few people on here have done it (not just with the railways) or are we all paragons of virtue.......?! Not saying it's right but it happens a lot.

 

[Monty]

They can't prosecute him now as they've (incorrectly in my opinion) already issued a UFN. Of course, if the UFN isn't paid, then they can launch Court proceedings. But until then, decision made by RPI, and that's the end of it.

Look again Ferret, it's a PFN. But as you said its the inspector's decision, for all we know the individual could have fed the RPI a cock and bull story about it being a 'genuine' mistake. Nobody could ever guess be would post an imagine of the notice and essentially brag about the encounter. He'll get what's coming to him in the end.

He is also under 18 and some companies try not prosecute passengers under this age. Infact our inspectors have been briefed that under no circumstances are under 18s to be questioned under caution.

 

[Ferret]

Sorry Ferret, you obviously know a great deal more about this than I do, so forgive me if these are silly questions.....

But surely the deliberate purchase of a child ticket by an adult is clear intention to avoid paying the correct fare? I would imagine that even an idiot like this knows how old he is.

Secondly, if someone is issued a UFN/penalty fare, and then subsequently goes on a public forum and brags about avoiding prosecution. (I'm taling hypothetically here, not necessarily about this case) then that would be self-incrimination and grounds for further action, no? I'm genuinely unaware of the rules and regulations about this.

Thirdly, if you don't mind saying, what do you think should have happened here/what would you have done?

Well, if the RPI is PACE-trained - MG11 for (as you identified) intent to avoid the fare due. If not, it's a TIR which will still go down the same prosecution route eventually.

I gather that FCC aren't keen on doing nil-paid PFs, so I'm assuming that this guy has paid the penalty fare. That's that. Of course, if it was a nil-paid PF and he doesn't pay, then his demonstration of intent may become all the more relevant!

Edit: yes Monty! My bad!

Nedchester - yes, loads of people have done it. The trick is not to get caught! And just because loads do it, doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye!

 

[nedchester]

Nedchester - yes, loads of people have done it. The trick is not to get caught! And just because loads do it, doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye!

Not at all!!!

 

[gooner88]

He is also under 18 and some companies try not prosecute passengers under this age. Infact our inspectors have been briefed that under no circumstances are under 18s to be questioned under caution.

NEVER should anyone under 18 be cautioned without a parent our guardian present.

 

[island]

They can't prosecute him now as they've (incorrectly in my opinion) already issued a UFN. Of course, if the UFN isn't paid, then they can launch Court proceedings. But until then, decision made by RPI, and that's the end of it.

Are you sure? The document appears to be a penalty fare, and the TOC can cancel the penalty fare (even after it's been paid) and prosecute instead, should they so choose.

 

[RJ]

What a jerk

His hashtags seem to indicate intent to avoid the fare, and if I were FGW I'd be on the phone to the lawyers.

He deserves a nice fine and a criminal record, but he probably won't get the hefty boot up the backside he also richly deserves.....

What for? A 16 year old on a child ticket who has already been stung for a PF?

You have to be realistic with these things. There seems to be a new found obsession with prosecutions on this forum by the chronically sanctimonious!

He is under the age of 18 (in fact he is 16) so unlikely to get prosecuted.

Now I am going to be honest here but many kids will try and get a childs ticket whilst slightly over age. I am sure quite a few people on here have done it (not just with the railways) or are we all paragons of virtue.......?! Not saying it's right but it happens a lot.

For once, I agree with you. When I was in RP I usually issued one off warnings to 16 year olds on child tickets and gave them a YP application form. However, anyone 18+ on child tickets really ought to be ashamed of themselves and should have the book thrown at them IMO.

 

[khib70]

What for? A 16 year old on a child ticket who has already been stung for a PF?

You have to be realistic with these things. There seems to be a new found obsession with prosecutions on this forum by the chronically sanctimonious!



For once, I agree with you. When I was in RP I usually issued one off warnings to 16 year olds on child tickets and gave them a YP application form. However, anyone 18+ on child tickets really ought to be ashamed of themselves and should have the book thrown at them IMO.

I applaud your liberal sentiments. But I was referring to his bragging about it on social media with hashtags like #notpaying. Funny how some teenagers demand to be treated like adults except when it actually costs them money.....

 

[maniacmartin]

Funny how teenagers demand to be treated like adults except when it actually costs them money.....

Let's not stereotype all teenagers please.

 

[jopsuk]

I gather that FCC aren't keen on doing nil-paid PFs, so I'm assuming that this guy has paid the penalty fare. That's that. Of course, if it was a nil-paid PF and he doesn't pay, then his demonstration of intent may become all the more relevant!

Read the form! it's FGW, not FCC, and down the bottom has "Amount Paid: NIL" on it. It could well be that the #notpaying indicates that he doesn't intend on paying the PF- which will be entertaining for him. And potentially expensive.

 

[RJ]

I applaud your liberal sentiments. But I was referring to his bragging about it on social media with hashtags like #notpaying. Funny how teenagers demand to be treated like adults except when it actually costs them money.....

The guy is immature, granted. However he may be given a reality check when whoever provides his pocket money has to stump up. At this stage in his life, that should be a sufficient punishment.

To be honest, I find these notices quite comical anyway, especially when of the last half dozen I've had, not a single member of staff has been able to fill it in correctly. I get so many of them that it has gotten to the stage when people crack up when I say I've had another one. I don't pay them any more either as it ties up my funds for too long!

 

[Ferret]

Read the form! it's FGW, not FCC, and down the bottom has "Amount Paid: NIL" on it. It could well be that the #notpaying indicates that he doesn't intend on paying the PF- which will be entertaining for him. And potentially expensive.

I can't read the form on this Blackberry for some reason! Hence the error!

Reckon he's given a false address then? In which case - somebody want to pass it to FGW for them to investigate?!

 

[khib70]

Let's not stereotype all teenagers please.

Fair play - post edited

 

[snail]

Sounds like he may not have been on his own...

brilliant. Got a £20 fine for buying child's ticket on the train...
#cheapscate #tramp #peak #peakoftheweek
http://instagr.am/p/RNBewnpd1G/

have to pay a £20 fine for buying a child ticket to slough! So peak! My day started so well and is now slowing going downhill

Y'know, if you are going to land yourself in it on t'interweb don't post your mate's details as well. :roll: