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East Coast vs Grand Central

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tbtc

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An interesting article in today's Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/oct/26/east-coast-grand-central-which-better

They generally compare two brands/ shops/ companies on a Friday, so you'll get something like Homebase vs B&Q or iTunes vs Blinkbox - this week it is train companies operating between London and York.

Grand Central were the winners (with price featuring highly). I didn't realise that their performance stats are not published by National Rail (what with them being Open Access I presume?).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Adam Williams in The Guardian said:
Each week we look at two competing products and review what they offer consumers, from how much they cost to how they perform.

Our reviewer will offer some thoughts based on his or her experience, so we know this will just be a snapshot – we want you to help us build a better picture. Tell us which, if either, you have used and what you think, and if there is a better alternative we have missed.

Between us we can hopefully work out which is the best buy and inform wavering consumers which to go for.

This week we're looking at train operators East Coast and Grand Central. Tell us what you think, ask any questions users may be able to answer, and tell us which services or goods you would like us to review in future weeks: it could be anything from deal websites to Christmas crackers. Also, if you would like to be a reviewer please email hilary.osborne@guardian.co.uk.

East Coast
Background The government was forced to bring the East Coast main line franchise back into public ownership in November 2009 when the previous franchisee, National Express, handed the keys back to the Department for Transport. A government-owned holding company, Directly Operated Railways, has been running services since then, with plans to return the franchise to the private sector in 2013.

Services East Coast currently operates services from London King's Cross to Yorkshire, the north-east and Scotland. Half-hourly services run from King's Cross to Leeds and Newcastle, with an hourly service continuing to Edinburgh. Glasgow, Aberdeen, Inverness, Hull, Lincoln, Skipton, Harrogate and Bradford are all served by infrequent services.

Ease of booking The East Coast website was easy to navigate, with no booking fee charges applied to purchases. First-class postage for tickets costs £1.

Price York to London King's Cross: anytime single £124.50; anytime return £249; off-peak single £93.10; off-peak return £94.10.

Was it on time? Our test train departed King's Cross on time but arrived at York four minutes behind schedule. According to Network Rail's statistics 87.8% of East Coast services in the year to 13 October 2012 were described as "punctual" – that is arriving at their destination within 10 minutes of the scheduled time.

Seating The majority of carriages on the train were standard class, with each containing a small number of table seats with the rest in airline style.

Staff The on-board staff were polite and friendly, with frequent announcements about the facilities offered.

Facilities This East Coast service contained a full on-board cafe and trolley service. Items included coffee (£2.20), tea (£1.85), a bacon butty (£3.55) and chocolate bars (80p), with a minimum card spend of £5. Wi-Fi is available on board all services, free to passengers travelling in first class but costing £4.95 an hour or £9.95 for 24-hours in standard class, although the latter are given 15 minutes of free internet access.

The train was generally well kept, with on-board toilets in a clean and tidy condition.

Rating 7/10.

Grand Central
Background Grand Central is one of a handful of open-access operators running rail services in the UK. It was given approval to operate services between London and the north-east in 2006, with its first trains running by the end of 2007. Founded by former British Rail area manager Ian Yeowart in 2000, Grand Central was sold to transport giant Arriva in November 2011.

Services Grand Central runs four daily services in each direction between London King's Cross and Sunderland, via Hartlepool and York. A fifth daily service is due to be added in December 2012. The firm also operates three services in either direction between London and Bradford, via Doncaster and Wakefield.

Ease of booking The Grand Central website contained plenty of information about its services and destinations, no booking fees were charged and first-class postage was offered free of charge.

Price York to London King's Cross: anytime single £75; anytime return £120; off-peak single £50; off-peak return £85.

Was it on time? The service tested between York and King's Cross departed on time and arrived in the capital a minute ahead of schedule. Unfortunately, Grand Central punctuality statistics are not published by National Rail.

Seating The service had one first-class coach with the rest of the train taken up with standard class carriages. The standard coaches had a good mix of airline style and table seats, all with ample leg room.

Facilities The on-board cafe had a good range with competitive prices. Tea and coffee (£1.50), a bacon butty (£3) and chocolate bars (80p) were on offer, as well as playing cards and travel games. Passengers wishing to pay by card had a minimum spend of £6. Wi-Fi is offered to all customers free of charge, while the on-board toilet facilities were more than adequate.

Staff The on-board crew were well-mannered, especially when confronted with a troublesome customer in the carriage. The on-board announcements, however, were perhaps too frequent for most people's tastes.

Rating 9/10.

Adam's verdict One of the few sections of UK railway to have more than one operator in direct competition, the York to London stretch is served by two competent providers in East Coast and Grand Central. East Coast is a considerably bigger firm and Grand Central was not able compete on the number of services offered, although it has already announced plans to add more in the near future.

Walk-up prices were considerably cheaper on Grand Central, with anytime return tickets nearly £130 cheaper than its rival. However, both firms offer a wide range of cheaper advance tickets.

The carriages on the Grand Central train were far roomier than those on East Coast, with more table seats available and considerably more leg room. Grand Central also offered free Wi-Fi and the prices of on-board snacks were far cheaper.

Despite running fewer services, the lower prices mean Grand Central is worth waiting for
eta the text of the article
 
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LE Greys

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I suppose its a fair comparison, but entirely London-centric. For anyone in Stevenage, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark, Retford, Doncaster or any of the smaller FCC stations it's:

Number of EC trains to York stopping - various (0.5-3tph)
Number of GC trains to York stopping - nil

QED
 

calc7

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I think the punctuality comparisons are a bit unfair.

KGX-YRK (EC) will have relatively little padding.
YRK-KGX (GC) will have 5-10 minutes' padding as it's at the end of the journey.
 

LE Greys

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I think the punctuality comparisons are a bit unfair.

KGX-YRK (EC) will have relatively little padding.
YRK-KGX (GC) will have 5-10 minutes' padding as it's at the end of the journey.

Exactly the same as EC has with up trains.
 

Yew

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Aye, for anywhere sound of york GC are pretty useless, shame they cant stop at retford or newark
 

LexyBoy

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Seems a bit strange giving a score; which is "better" is very subjective (which they do acknowledge). For someone going to a business meeting, EC would win hands down on grounds of frequency; for a leisure traveller GC’s lower fares and more relaxed atmosphere would be appreciated. For those for whom price is the main driver, whoever is offering the lowest AP fares on their travel dates would be chosen.

I'm still looking forward to travelling with GC; the best opportunity I've had didn't end well when the train didn't turn up... (yes, a Bradford service).
 
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Seems a fair enough comparison, i think most forum users on here would use GC over EC if they were buying a walk up ticket and there was a train due within the hour. Most of the info in the article seems accurate which is often not the case when it comes to the media and the railways, although the £5 minimum spend on a card no longer applies on EC.
 

HST Power

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I've never used Grand Central. I wouldn't mind trying them out, but it would be a little pointless when my northward destination is Newcastle. I suppose I could go up to Sunderland and jump on the Metro, though that doesn't seem particularly appealing.

As far as this forum is concerned, I think East Coast are a bit like marmite; its a love/hate relationship! 9 times of 10 I've walked away a satisfied customer, and their complimentary First Class offer seems good to be me. Before I get haggled by my colleagues from the meals thread, I should probably point out that I haven't travelled frequently enough to expierence any shortages!! :p
 

Mainliner

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For those for whom price is the main driver, whoever is offering the lowest AP fares on their travel dates would be chosen.

Indeed, and EC's are far lower. I've never seen GC's lowest advertised AP prices on any of the occasions I've checked online.
 

TUC

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Aye, for anywhere sound of york GC are pretty useless, shame they cant stop at retford or newark

Blame the Department of Transport and ORR, not Grand Central.
 

yorksrob

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I must admit, I'm rather spoilt in that I use both East Coast and Grand Central fairly regularly and have always found both of them to be very good.

I have to say, I'm always in steerage and GC tends to pip East Coast to the post on price, although I do miss the offers that they used to do - which were generally more expensive than their advanced tickets are now, but which were flexible (something which was genuinely innovative on today's InterCity railway). These actually prompted me to travel when I wouldn't have done otherwise which cheap advanced fares don't tend to do.

Couple of things of note on GC are the Wakefield Kirkgate stop, which I find very convenient for connections, and the buffet car which sells an excellently priced cup of tea (From an enthusiasts point of view the unusual route through PonteCarlo and the non-stop run from Donney are a bonus).

EC offers a very decent bread and butter service. The later trains back on a Saturday evening are a definate improvement and the buffet services are always good for a cup of tea and a bag of crisps when required. There are generally enough advanced fares for me to get around for a reasonable price and (touch wood) I've not been affected by the overhead line problems for a while.
 

IanXC

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EC are 'protected' from direct competition like other TOCs, what restrictions apply to Great Central ?

They're protected to the extent that all Open Access Operators have to submit an application to the ORR for each service, in which they must show that their new service is not "principally abstractive", i.e. they will not simply take existing revenue from franchised TOCs. Virgin had a specific Moderation of Competition clause inserted into their franchise agreement which prevented OAOs from even applying.
 

Simon11

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For Grand Central they only have their paths for a limited time, so therefore in a few years, if they don't win an extention, they could end up with nothing!
 

Aictos

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Aye, for anywhere sound of york GC are pretty useless, shame they cant stop at retford or newark

I be happy with them stopping at Stevenage and Peterborough/Grantham, be using them all the time then :)
 

greg tingey

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Only used GC once - but I was very impressed.
Of course the "main" East Coast operator is at a considerable disadvantage, after the failure-of-franchise fiasco.

A sad come-down for a great railway line, in fact.
 
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I usually travel with GC for trips dahn sarf as its cheaper with comfier seat layout. Last week travelling with a colleague who moaned about the fixed departure time back from the Cross, so expenses paid an extra £60 each to put us on East Coast

OK so I got home an hour and a bit earlier. But getting on an EC train with almost every seat reserved making work very hard in the seats we managed to get made me think next time I'll pull rank and insist on GC.

Sent from my Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk
 

andrewsisters

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Travelled Hartlepool to KGX on Grand Central a couple of weeks ago. With some crafty internet searching, got first class for £45 return and had a comfortable, on-time journey both ways, plenty of tea/coffee and biccies, newspaper and steward will go and get your sandwiches for you! On East Coast we have to get to Durham/Darlington/Newcastle first, and prices are higher so GC is great for us. Hope it lasts!
 

HSTEd

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I much prefer EC to the OAOs on the East Coast Myself, the seating plans actually make sense on east coast and the trains don't have table supports covering up the power sockets in first class...

And I especially don't like GC because my 1st Class PRIV pass is not valid on it.....

Hull Trains is good, although I do miss the days of the Cl87 hauled electric set they had.... sinking into an insanely comfy seat...
 

Butts

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What freebies do you get on Grand Central in First Class - is it similar to East Coast ?

I one did a short hop in cattle on GC - it's rolling stock seemed even more ancient than East Coast's.:idea:
 

yorkie

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What freebies do you get on Grand Central in First Class - is it similar to East Coast ?
Yes, you will get complimentary light refreshments.

I one did a short hop in cattle on GC - it's rolling stock seemed even more ancient than East Coast's.:idea:
The HSTs were not given anywhere near such an extensive refurbishment (the original seats remain), though extra legroom has been added in standard class.

As for the 180s, they didn't receive much attention internally.
 

Butts

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Yes, you will get complimentary light refreshments.


The HSTs were not given anywhere near such an extensive refurbishment (the original seats remain), though extra legroom has been added in standard class.

As for the 180s, they didn't receive much attention internally.

I take it from "light refreshments" we are talking more XC than EC - ie GC is to EC what XC is to VT - pay for alcohol and lower range of free catering :idea:
 
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