Kings Cross V Euston

[wintonian]

Now trumped by the new Leeds (City)
Nothing so gloomy as p16 where the sun never shines, and there are no facilities.
How could they design a new station with so little natural light?

I didn't think Leeds was that bad, have to admit though it is a bit like a giant soulless warehouse.

 

[gottago]

So many of the platforms at Euston remind me of underground loading areas for shopping centres. Very dismal.

 

[LE Greys]

So many of the platforms at Euston remind me of underground loading areas for shopping centres. Very dismal.

Very much the in thing in the 1960s, a bit like copying Stansted Airport seems to be the in thing now (as in the massive conservatory painted unrelieved white attached to St Pancras).

<EDIT> And the massive conservatory over the Aire in Leeds.

 

[yorksrob]

Now trumped by the new Leeds (City)
Nothing so gloomy as p16 where the sun never shines, and there are no facilities.
How could they design a new station with so little natural light?

You think Platform 16 is bad ? Try 17a in the rain

That said, (platform 17 excepted) I quite like Leeds City's new trainshed. There's certainly more natural light than in the previous one.

 

[Eagle]

Sorry but third rail spoilt it [Waterloo]...

How old are you? Waterloo's had third rail since 1915.

 

[LE Greys]

How old are you? Waterloo's had third rail since 1915.

1898 downstairs!

Me, I reckon International spoilt it, and will spoil it even more if it gets turned into shops.

 

[Lampshade]

How could they design a new station with so little natural light?

Birmingham New Street trumps all in that department.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Well put.

"I know what I need while I wait for the train - a new pair of earnings".

In all fairness to my knowledge there are no recruitment agencies at St Pancras.
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I adore the revitalised St Pancras and Kings Cross stations, although I have to say, I have a bit of a soft spot for the concourse at Euston. It is modern but fairly nicely designed in terms of being warm, has plenty of natural light and is easy to use. The platform area isn't so impressive though.

The thing is though at a station like Euston the platform area is not particulary important as passengers spend very little time there. The platform environment is far important at large regional stations such as Birmingham New Street and Leeds where passengers are far more likely to be waiting for connections. Or indeed any station where departure details are not released until the last few minutes!

 

[Nym]

there is no where for me to use my bite card. :cry:

I do like Euston, though I find the concourse a bit overcrowded these days.

Not having anywhere to use a bite card is a damn good thing as it means that LCR hasn't sold out all of it's soul to SSP to run the food outlets like NR has for all it's stations.

Well put.

Its nice to have facilities at major termini like a reasonable selection of outlets for food & drink on the go, a coffee shop, a express style supermarket, a public house and perhaps even a newsagent or book store, but do you really need any shops that sell fashion accessories? Its not like most people think; "I know what I need while I wait for the train - a new pair of earnings".

Money, simple as; retailers pay a lot of money to be in places like St P and KGX, they always have for mainline stations, to the point of different pricing structures being put in place by companies like WHSmith, although I must say the WHS on KGX lived up to expectations, tiny tills and the store was an absolute mess with most space taken up with sold space and no actual lines you want.

I keep looking at the FCC boards wondering why I can't find my EMT/ HS1 departure on there. Its not like anywhere else (that I know of) has departure boards grouped by TOC in different parts of the station. :roll:

Victoria and Liverpool Street...

Granted the latter is by former TOC though...

 

[jopsuk]

Liverpool Street being grouped by route is only a recent thing though- and unlike St Pancras, trains to the same place won't appear on different board groups. Same for Victoria- grouped by route rather than TOC, though in that case the two are the same thing.

Glasgow Queen Street has departure boards grouped by high level/low level despite both levels having trains to Edinburgh- that's rather closer to the St Pancras arrangement

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Very much the in thing in the 1960s, a bit like copying Stansted Airport seems to be the in thing now (as in the massive conservatory painted unrelieved white attached to St Pancras).
<EDIT> And the massive conservatory over the Aire in Leeds.

Euston is of the 1960s and was from the same design stable as Heathrow T1.
Both were very nice when new - spacious, clean, airy and quiet.
They have deteriorated badly in the last decade or so, being filled with nasty little kiosks which make navigation difficult and reduce the circulation space.
The old Euston was hopeless, being a mishmash of various rebuilds, even though it did have some architectural gems.

I've never used King's Cross much, but it always strikes me as being an austere sort of place with minimal facilites.
The recent upgrade looks excellent though.
These days I rather like Marylebone for atmosphere.

 

[Windcutter]

How old are you? Waterloo's had third rail since 1915.

Too old,

I did not say when third rail applied only that I don't like the looks of the third rail as part of the permanent way, + I don't like the overhead wires also. :roll:

 

[pitdiver]

It has to be Waterloo for me. Always brings back memories of as a child going on holiday to the southwest or the Isle Of Wight.

 

[oversteer]

I presume the roof doesn't leak at Kings Cross, which is more than can be said for Euston.

Dripping water plus slippy platform surface is really dangerous, and all they do at Euston is put mats down, which absorb the water and make a larger area slippy.
Hopefully nobody has hurt themselves yet, but I've nearly come a cropper a few times, and with no wet floor signs I suspect NR are leaving themselves well open for a claim.

 

[yorksrob]

In all fairness to my knowledge there are no recruitment agencies at St Pancras.
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The thing is though at a station like Euston the platform area is not particulary important as passengers spend very little time there. The platform environment is far important at large regional stations such as Birmingham New Street and Leeds where passengers are far more likely to be waiting for connections. Or indeed any station where departure details are not released until the last few minutes!

There is a lot of truth in that.

That said though, there is something very impressive about arriving under a superb trainshed, such as those at London Victoria (Eastern side), Waterloo or (up until quite recently) London Bridge.

 

[Eagle]

Birmingham New Street trumps all in that department.

Hopefully it might get a little better when the rebuild's finished.

 

[billio]

I didn't think Leeds was that bad, have to admit though it is a bit like a giant soulless warehouse.

I agree Leeds is dark and a bit soulless, it's one redeeming feature is the large mezzanine bridge at the west-bound end, with the panoramic window. It's a shame they can't make better use of this as it is a more open and interesting place to wait for a train.
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You think Platform 16 is bad ? Try 17a in the rain

That said, (platform 17 excepted) I quite like Leeds City's new trainshed. There's certainly more natural light than in the previous one.

Platform 17, that's the place where a train for Nottingham and a train for Knottingley sit at the platform at the same time, one departing just before the other. An easy mistake to make ....

 

[Waverley125]

oh god, the same idiots moaning about Leeds station having never bothered look where it is.

The station is really really good. The skylights bring in natural light without blinding people, or creating a greenhouse. The walls keep the wind out and the place warm, while not making anything too gloomy. If there is a 'light problem', it's from City House directly abutting the north wall, and obscuring some of the skylights. I'm all in favour of CH's demoltion.

As for lack of facilities on Platform 16, that's because there is a train through there at most every 15 minutes during the day, you're never waiting for long. Also given the station is ON A VIADUCT there simply isn't space to build a new concourse there. The site is incredibly inconvenient, but it's what we've got to work with.

Also, the north concourse is by far and away the nicest part of any railway station in the North of england, and the south concourse is functional, if a little grey.

 

[HSTEd]

I actually like the 70s shed on the front of King's Cross.... it just has this feeling that it imbues the best parts of British Rail, unassuming and doing the job in the most cost effective way possible.

As to Euston it has not aged well but then what buildings from that era have?

And the new trainshed at St Pancras that is tacked onto the old one looks horrible.
Couldn't they have just made a trainshed of similar profile to the existing one using more modern materials so it just smoothly carries on from one to the other?

 

[IanXC]

Couldn't they have just made a trainshed of similar profile to the existing one using more modern materials so it just smoothly carries on from one to the other?

I'm not certain this is the reason, but on other Grade 1 listed buildings English Heritage are always very keen for the new parts of work like this to be very distinctly different from the original. Which is certainly the case at St Pancras!

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm not certain this is the reason, but on other Grade 1 listed buildings English Heritage are always very keen for the new parts of work like this to be very distinctly different from the original. Which is certainly the case at St Pancras!

I do seem to recall that one of the reasons that the new trainshed is very low and makes no attempt to blend is because of St Pancras's listed nature. I think they had to design the add-on so that it wouldn't obscure the old train shed to much.

 

[yorksrob]

oh god, the same idiots moaning about Leeds station having never bothered look where it is.

The station is really really good. The skylights bring in natural light without blinding people, or creating a greenhouse. The walls keep the wind out and the place warm, while not making anything too gloomy. If there is a 'light problem', it's from City House directly abutting the north wall, and obscuring some of the skylights. I'm all in favour of CH's demoltion.

As for lack of facilities on Platform 16, that's because there is a train through there at most every 15 minutes during the day, you're never waiting for long. Also given the station is ON A VIADUCT there simply isn't space to build a new concourse there. The site is incredibly inconvenient, but it's what we've got to work with.

Also, the north concourse is by far and away the nicest part of any railway station in the North of england, and the south concourse is functional, if a little grey.

Whilst I appreciate the awkward location of Leeds City (being a regular visitor through the dark arches) it doesn't make platform 17 any less of a pain (although it would be improved with a direct lift to The Hop).
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I'm not certain this is the reason, but on other Grade 1 listed buildings English Heritage are always very keen for the new parts of work like this to be very distinctly different from the original. Which is certainly the case at St Pancras!

I can see its point, but I'm rather glad they didn't have that rule when they built the lovely fourth span at Paddington.

 

[Eagle]

The skylights bring in natural light without blinding people, or creating a greenhouse. The walls keep the wind out and the place warm, while not making anything too gloomy. If there is a 'light problem', it's from City House directly abutting the north wall, and obscuring some of the skylights. I'm all in favour of CH's demoltion.

Light! Lots of it! From the north-facing skylights.

 

[TrainBoy98]

the only station i get lost in is Fenchurch street, dont ask me how, it just illudes me! I dont like the arragement at st pancras but dont like many other London Termini either. But my top three have to be:

1) Marylebone/Fenchurch
2) Charing Cross
3) Euston

So deffinately Euston over Kings Cross

 

[Geezertronic]

the only station i get lost in is Fenchurch street, dont ask me how, it just illudes me! I dont like the arragement at st pancras but dont like many other London Termini either. But my top three have to be:

1) Marylebone/Fenchurch
2) Charing Cross
3) Euston

So deffinately Euston over Kings Cross

I'd like to see how many people would agree with you Euston is a nightmare at the best of times. Bring on a rebuild and quick, that's what I say

 

[oversteer]

Euston also suffers from a lack of any kind of predictable flow, so you have people rushing for trains crossing paths with other people rushing for trains, right where other people are standing waiting for trains .. oh plus a few randomly placed shops/concessions, just to get in the way.
Thankfully some bright spark put in the suburban tube exit, but even then you can't guarantee suburban trains will depart/arrive on 8-11.

 

[bailey65]

Euston and london bridge are supposed to be getting rebuilds if it is got right then there should be massive improvements.
London bridge will be a bit more intensive job as a lot of trackwork is being altered at the same time.

 

[LE Greys]

Euston and london bridge are supposed to be getting rebuilds if it is got right then there should be massive improvements.
London bridge will be a bit more intensive job as a lot of trackwork is being altered at the same time.

A few ideas (as well as the obvious need for a travolator to St Pancras) would be to open up a few more entrances for the Tube station at street level on the outside, plus an underground passage to Euston Square. Opening up the circulating area in front of the station (where the Robert Stephenson statue is) and widening all the passageways would also help. I suppose the chances of pulling down the 60s buildings and putting up a replica Doric Arch are minimal, but even a mini one would make things look better.

 

[6Gman]

Euston is of the 1960s and was from the same design stable as Heathrow T1.
Both were very nice when new - spacious, clean, airy and quiet.
They have deteriorated badly in the last decade or so, being filled with nasty little kiosks which make navigation difficult and reduce the circulation space.
The old Euston was hopeless, being a mishmash of various rebuilds, even though it did have some architectural gems.

Agree, agree, agree, agree, agree.

I agree.

Euston 1966-70 was a super station.

 

[3141]

When the current Euston was new its modern design was widely known.

In 1972 I was living in Zambia and had to deliver something to someone in the Physics Department at the university in Lusaka. I entered the building and asked for directions. Someone pointed out where to go. A bit further on I met someone else and asked again. "Go along here," he said, "and you'll come to a place like Euston Station." I don't suppose there are many stations that would get that sort of mention over 5000 miles away.