I can't really make a definative judgement of that sort as I'm either sat in one or the other and don't directly compare the two on the same train at the same time, however, whenever I travel First Class it is almost always calmer with its inhabitants more spaced out (in the geographical sense) than journeys at similar times on the same routes in standard, so my anecdotal experience supports my theory (There was one time when the ECML was up the spout and there were people sat on the floor in first on the MML, but I'd assume standard was the same on that occasion).
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George Osborne in first class with standard ticket?
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I can't really make a definative judgement of that sort as I'm either sat in one or the other and don't directly compare the two on the same train at the same time, however, whenever I travel First Class it is almost always calmer with its inhabitants more spaced out (in the geographical sense) than journeys at similar times on the same routes in standard, so my anecdotal experience supports my theory (There was one time when the ECML was up the spout and there were people sat on the floor in first on the MML, but I'd assume standard was the same on that occasion).
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Perhaps.
But MPs are the pinnacle of public service. They are our government, our lawmakers. We desire and need the best government we can get and that includes facilitating MPs to work as effectively as possible. That's why we pay for a Palace of Westminster out of the public purse (and that costs a lot more than a bunch of train fares.).
The railways are a central part of our infrastructure, our country. It is only right that they provide free service to MPs as part of being allowed to be who they are, just the same as a publicly owned railway of yore.
Moreover most members of the Commons' travel is between Westminster and their constituencies. The qicker and better and more frequent they can be in both constituency and London the better the public is served.
It's a minor thing, it's part of being a great country. Free rail travel for MPs has existed at least since the Second War and probably before. It's the right thing to do, we public are only hurting ourselves by not providing it.
jonmorris0844 said:
Misheard? When the aide and the train manager were, in her words "right next to me"?
Deliberately twisted what was said? That would be a good career move, with her name up in lights as the person who started the bandwagon rolling on Twitter. Career suicide are the words that spring to mind, had she done what you suggest.
The conversation between the aide and the train manager in the standard class coach is at the heart of this.
Odd how the Treasury and Virgin accounts tally up so neatly about the aide seeking out the train manager to arrange an upgrade, isn't it?
The Treasury version
Which doesn't seem to be quite how the conversation actually went - unless Ms Townsend has made the whole thing up.
As for George needing peace and quiet to grapple with affairs of state, according to a Richard Warren, quoted by Daily Mail
Ah the conspiracy theory. Virgin and the Government working together to protect Mr Osborne. And very quickly too, given how quick Virgin said it was a non-event.
The journalist could easily have misheard or misunderstood the situation, based on what was said sounding like someone refusing to sit in standard. Of course, if George Osborne doesn't do standard (supporting the "Great Train Snobbery' headline) then I presume they didn't have standard tickets for the train booked, or any intention of sitting in those reserved seats. If they were to sit in standard, that sort of contradicts things a bit.
I thought from the photo it was an iPad too, which isn't a laptop. And an iPod doesn't have a DVD player in it either. But I am not sure it actually matters if they were working. Does anyone know where they'd been for the day? Had they had a break during the day? Were they on an earlier train (it hasn't been established that the change of train was missing the booked one, or being called back to London earlier) and so using the time on the train for a break? Or can politicians never take a break and relax?
It's not career suicide for the journalist as nobody can disprove what she said, even if the evidence doesn't stack up. And it wouldn't be the first time someone has got things wrong, or twisted facts, and then been unable to backtrack for fear of revealing the mistake. What's more, enough people want to believe it.
I suppose they're going to be attacked for taking any complimentary food or drink on the train too, despite having paid for first class.
There were also a lot of people in first class who clearly weren't actually supposed to be there!
The journalist could easily have misheard or misunderstood the situation, based on what was said sounding like someone refusing to sit in standard. Of course, if George Osborne doesn't do standard (supporting the "Great Train Snobbery' headline) then I presume they didn't have standard tickets for the train booked, or any intention of sitting in those reserved seats. If they were to sit in standard, that sort of contradicts things a bit.
I thought from the photo it was an iPad too, which isn't a laptop. And an iPod doesn't have a DVD player in it either. But I am not sure it actually matters if they were working. Does anyone know where they'd been for the day? Had they had a break during the day? Were they on an earlier train (it hasn't been established that the change of train was missing the booked one, or being called back to London earlier) and so using the time on the train for a break? Or can politicians never take a break and relax?
It's not career suicide for the journalist as nobody can disprove what she said, even if the evidence doesn't stack up. And it wouldn't be the first time someone has got things wrong, or twisted facts, and then been unable to backtrack for fear of revealing the mistake. What's more, enough people want to believe it.
I suppose they're going to be attacked for taking any complimentary food or drink on the train too, despite having paid for first class.
There were also a lot of people in first class who clearly weren't actually supposed to be there!
blacknight
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blacknight
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So tell me how long have you been suffering from these delusions
Can you run that through Google Translate for me please?!
Are you saying the aide was in fact a police protection officer? If so, that's another detail the journalist got wrong. Whoops!
Given the police are usually allowed to travel for free, at least certainly when on duty, that throws yet another spanner in the works doesn't it.
Imagine the likes of the Daily Mail finding that out...
transmanche
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We all know how good the Virgin PR machine is - and how effective they are at spinning things to the company's advantage...
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I find it difficult to follow the gist of this from the wording stated in this quote.
Is it.... "Tory Boy sent is"...something that describes the actions taken by "Tory Boy" in the role of that of a police protection officer ?
Or is it ...."Is police protection officer"...something that queries the role of that person?
Or has something been omitted between "is" and "police" in the quote ?
blacknight
Member
No just the report in Dail Mail article would suggest ther were 3 persons in the group, George Osbourne, his aide & his Police Protection Officer who sat in standard class for journey. So maybe free standard class travel but no worthy of upgrade into first class.
The police officer sat in standard when they were in first? How would s/he respond if something happened?
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I can see the theory that they're going to suck up to the Government to try and win the next franchise, but otherwise I'd have thought it more likely that they'd be quite keen to 'expose' the Government.
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I can see the theory that they're going to suck up to the Government to try and win the next franchise, but otherwise I'd have thought it more likely that they'd be quite keen to 'expose' the Government.
blacknight
Member
Gist is clear to me class war is ongoing- Why do tax payers fund a police protection officer for George Osbourne who then as to travel in standard class-whilst his aide was upgraded to first class travel, is George Osbourne paying for her upgrade out of his own pocket, if watching comedy DVD would hardly suggest it was official business.
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Exactly my point why have close protection officer if they are travelling in another coach, what if something happened? George would have only himself to blame.
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table38
Established Member
Presumably, like the journalist who was also sat in another coach, you are still somehow able to accurately observe and report on everything that is happening elsewhere on the train
transmanche
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Any efficient PR machine (such as Virgin's) will have worked out in advance what their response will be to a variety of possible scenarios, in order to further the company's interests.
In this case, they've decided that smothering the story is best for them. That might be (as you suggest) that they want to 'suck up' to the government. Or simply they want to keep the media focus on the franchise renewal story - and don't want media focus 'diverted' from that. Or it could be for some other reason that's not yet clear. But you can bet your life that it has been thought about very carefully.
Given the laughter, it could have been a DVD of recent speeches by Milliband or Balls:roll:
blacknight
Member
Presumably, like the journalist who was also sat in another coach, you are still somehow able to accurately observe and report on everything that is happening elsewhere on the train
Thought idea of close protection was to we able to stop possible attack not report it happening, imagine Bonehead & Foyle leaping over catering trolley & into action.
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Do we actually have a source beyond the Daily Mail for the information that his protection officer wasn't sat with/nearby?
They acted damn quick.
I'm amazed that this journalist couldn't possibly have lied or simply misheard, but everyone else can lie without fear. George Osborne, the TM/guard, the train company, the police.. and we can even wonder if this was created to deflect attention away from the resignation of Andrew Mitchell, who was hounded out for not even using the word 'pleb'.
Still, if all of this is true and it can be done on a train with loads of witnesses who have been silenced by the men in black, I guess they'll be rigging the election in 2015 anyway.
The conspiracy theory is that Mitchell resigned to deflect attention away from Osborne.
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The clue is rather in the name.
transmanche
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Why should that be a surprise? In the same way that the railway has a number of planned responses to deal with safety incidents; it should come as no surprise that a PR machine will have planned how to respond to a variety of scenarios.
The Government would have a number of pre-planned responses, but Virgin Trains?
David Cameron hated Virgin didn't he? That's why he told the DfT not to allow Virgin to win at any cost.
But now Virgin and the Government can work together to quickly put out a release that says exactly the same thing, when it's impossible to believe that they both said the same thing because that's what actually happened.
David Cameron hated Virgin didn't he? That's why he told the DfT not to allow Virgin to win at any cost.
But now Virgin and the Government can work together to quickly put out a release that says exactly the same thing, when it's impossible to believe that they both said the same thing because that's what actually happened.
blacknight
Member
Daily Telegraph reports boarded train with aides pural ie more than one.
BBC report Train Manager was spoken to by Met Police Officer.
Wow, this story just keeps on changing!
How many people were in his entourage? If there were multiple aides and police, why did it only cost £160-£190 (depending on whether you take the Virgin stated amount, or that of the reporter that heard £160)?
How many people were in his entourage? If there were multiple aides and police, why did it only cost £160-£190 (depending on whether you take the Virgin stated amount, or that of the reporter that heard £160)?
transmanche
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Yes! For a business that's so slick at PR, why would that come as a shock?
Because I doubt their PR is that slick.
PR agencies can come up with some very good spin, but knowing people who work in PR, it can also involve many emails/calls to and fro to get every little thing checked and approved.
That takes time. Nobody can come up with something slick and post in a few seconds, as that runs the risk of making a mistake - and when you've issued a statement to the world, that's devastating.
Virgin will have been taking its time to manage the whole WCML franchise saga, not just saying things off the cuff.
For my sins, I've helped with copy writing for press releases and statements. Even though what I've written or adapted has since been published without alterations, nobody ever trusted me enough not to check and double check.
I suspect that what was said was more likely just a simple confirmation of the facts and not a clever game to blackmail the Government.
PR agencies can come up with some very good spin, but knowing people who work in PR, it can also involve many emails/calls to and fro to get every little thing checked and approved.
That takes time. Nobody can come up with something slick and post in a few seconds, as that runs the risk of making a mistake - and when you've issued a statement to the world, that's devastating.
Virgin will have been taking its time to manage the whole WCML franchise saga, not just saying things off the cuff.
For my sins, I've helped with copy writing for press releases and statements. Even though what I've written or adapted has since been published without alterations, nobody ever trusted me enough not to check and double check.
I suspect that what was said was more likely just a simple confirmation of the facts and not a clever game to blackmail the Government.
table38
Established Member
I'd tend to agree. You'd be crazy to put out a press statement without first checking the facts and speaking to at least the Guard involved.
Otherwise what happens if the Guard "goes native" and refutes the press statement? (well, apart from losing his job)
So that would be a no? Is there any other confirmation that the escort for Osborne was not sat with/near him?
To (mis)quote Harold Wilson, an InterCity journey is a long time in politics. Anything ministerial could crop up.
transmanche
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CardiffKid
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Do you have any proof what so ever for that?
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