Spitfire Tours R.I.P?

[Whistler40145]

Does anyone know whether Spitfire Tours are still operating as all seems to have gone very quiet?

 

[Ferret]

Does anyone know whether Spitfire Tours are still operating as all seems to have gone very quiet?

The rumour mill suggested that they'd operated their last tour. Had some good tours with them too.

 

[Whistler40145]

I read in Railways Illustrated & they had contacted Spitfire, but never received a reply, so I think it's bye bye.

 

[43167]

Website still going, but their last tour (last as in most recent, not last ever) should have been 29th Sept, a Preston-Tenby, but is says regretfully now cancelled.

Its a shame if they have given up. I did 3 of their tours last year and all very reasonably priced.

 

[60163]

Seems to be the case, RI also said [Spitfire] haven't contacted, well, anyone

 

[Whistler40145]

I don't wish to speak out of term, but if Spitfire are in trouble, isn't it good business practice & good manners to make an announcement saying 'yes we are still in business' or 'we are sorry to announce that we are no longer in business and thank you to our customers for travelling with us in the past'.

What are your views on this?

 

[Geezertronic]

I don't wish to speak out of term, but if Spitfire are in trouble, isn't it good business practice & good manners to make an announcement saying 'yes we are still in business' or 'we are sorry to announce that we are no longer in business and thank you to our customers for travelling with us in the past'.

What are your views on this?

As a potential customer, I would want to know whether there was a possibility that my money would be lost if they went bust.

 

[Whistler40145]

I have seen this happen in the past with other tour operators, whereby customers received information one day & then nothing, this is really bad.

I think it's worse to go into hiding than be honest.

 

[Ferret]

I have seen this happen in the past with other tour operators, whereby customers received information one day & then nothing, this is really bad.

I think it's worse to go into hiding than be honest.

I don't know what's what here, but if you were trying to restructure a business, and secure funding, the last thing you'd do I guess is advertise the fact that you're in the merde.

I don't know Jo that well, I speak to her when I see her, but whatever happens, I wish her all the best. I guess time will tell, but if they have run their last tour, then that's a shame.

 

[Whistler40145]

I have travelled with Spitfire and Jo is such a pleasant person to deal with. i enjoyed the West Highlander with 20302 & 37069, I hope it isn't the end.

 

[JohnB57]

Its a shame if they have given up. I did 3 of their tours last year and all very reasonably priced.

Do you think that this may be significant? Railtour pricing seems to me to be based on a standard market rate, not on the actual cost to the operator - the price simply does not vary enough between tours to be realistic. This is a very risky business model as at worst, it depends on a very high percentage takeup with minute margins even if the takeup is achieved and if something goes wrong, results in a hefty loss. Which is why many have been cancelled of course.

Very sad, but we've been getting railtours far too cheap. I do hope that the people at Spitfire survive without personal debt as thousands of people have had a lot of pleasure through their efforts.

One thought. If publications contributed a small fee to a central rescue fund for every picture published of a mainline railtour, maybe it would encourage more Spitfires/Green Parties etc to take the risk. Even considering the frustrations that the industry must suffer through frequent loco failures, the world would be a poorer place without these fascinating workings.

 

[Whistler40145]

I don't think situations external to Spitfire have helped.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

From what I read Spitfire were making tours too cheap (though very attractive fares of course) but it wasn't making anything out of it. I believe they still owe money to providers (DRS or WCRC I think).

Maybe they are wanting to clear these debts and have a stab at it again from fresh with slightly increased prices? Would make sense...

 

[captainbigun]

Even considering the frustrations that the industry must suffer through frequent loco failures, the world would be a poorer place without these fascinating workings.

It's not just frustrations, there's cost too. Many operators are now asking third party loco owners to cough up in the event that delay minutes rack up and a large bill arrives. Failing in the middle of the East Coast, for example, is going to cost thousands.

Take a look at Spitfire's accounts, says it all.

The reality is, as a promoter using third part traction you need to cover all of the immediate costs and have a slush fund should the worst happen. As has been said, punters are going to have to pay or live without.

 

[Robert Taggart]

Alas, have never travelled with Spitfire...

After waiting for four hours on a cold and nowadays boring Crewe station for their inaugural railtour - the Class 87 Farewell - 12/07 ? - without any official communication as to what was happening (unofficial communication was via third parties with friends 'down' the line ) - one decided it was all just a bit too amateurish.

Perhaps it comes with age ? - Moi = middle-aged - but, one no longer has the patience for such nonsense - not when one enjoys other / easier leisure pursuits. Having a 'life' outside of railway 'circles' does help !

Oh, that railtour ? - was cancelled - there and then ! Passengers were refunded the railtour fare, but, not the fare for the taxi, connecting train service or refreshments consumed in the buffet while waiting !

 

[laird]

Announcements at any joining station for a charter train seem to be a bit of a lottery.
If the station is manned and you are lucky to have a sympathetic human announcer then something might be broadcast. I've not seen any operator that does it better or worse than another.

Otherwise it seems always to depend on someone on the train telephoning ahead with news of progress. I've been that person receiving the phone call and relaying news from a friend onboard.

I guess the operators could place a steward at each station to act as a relay for information but that probably depends on being able to give up a seat on the train free (at the loss of one potential sale) and assumes there would be a suitable volunteer for each calling point.

 

[12CSVT]

Perhaps one mistake Spitfire made was that, having started off with no-frills out and back excursions with heritage traction, later tours got too complicated (ie, spin & win multi traction tours, 'Routes & Branches' track bashing tours, and 2, 3, and 4 day tours).

 

[43167]

Alas, have never travelled with Spitfire...

After waiting for four hours on a cold and nowadays boring Crewe station for their inaugural railtour - the Class 87 Farewell - 12/07 ? - without any official communication as to what was happening (unofficial communication was via third parties with friends 'down' the line ) - one decided it was all just a bit too amateurish.

Perhaps it comes with age ? - Moi = middle-aged - but, one no longer has the patience for such nonsense - not when one enjoys other / easier leisure pursuits. Having a 'life' outside of railway 'circles' does help !

Oh, that railtour ? - was cancelled - there and then ! Passengers were refunded the railtour fare, but, not the fare for the taxi, connecting train service or refreshments consumed in the buffet while waiting !

To fair, ive seen video's of that tour (or the ecs) and the problem was a broken door on the stock which WCRC own, not spitfire.

 

[theblackwatch]

Alas, have never travelled with Spitfire...

After waiting for four hours on a cold and nowadays boring Crewe station for their inaugural railtour - the Class 87 Farewell - 12/07 ? - without any official communication as to what was happening (unofficial communication was via third parties with friends 'down' the line ) - one decided it was all just a bit too amateurish.

Perhaps it comes with age ? - Moi = middle-aged - but, one no longer has the patience for such nonsense - not when one enjoys other / easier leisure pursuits. Having a 'life' outside of railway 'circles' does help !

Oh, that railtour ? - was cancelled - there and then ! Passengers were refunded the railtour fare, but, not the fare for the taxi, connecting train service or refreshments consumed in the buffet while waiting !

The communications issue was a 'lesson learnt' after that first tour - in recent years, Spitfire have included a mobile number on the back of tickets so that people can get in touch with them in the event of any problems.

 

[Robert Taggart]

To fair, ive seen video's of that tour (or the ecs) and the problem was a broken door on the stock which WCRC own, not spitfire.

Indeed - that was the word on the day as relayed by one of our fellow punters on Crewe station from one of his friends at Wolverhampton.

It was 'cold' comfort !
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The communications issue was a 'lesson learnt' after that first tour - in recent years, Spitfire have included a mobile number on the back of tickets so that people can get in touch with them in the event of any problems.

Begs the question - did you ever have to ring ?!

 

[Whistler40145]

Does anyone think that the situation of West Coast not permitting the use of other companies traction has led to a downturn in bookings for Spitfire?

 

[scotsman]

I've heard from a Steward at a different operator that Spitfire is showing all the hallmarks of going under...

 

[BestWestern]

I don't wish to speak out of term, but if Spitfire are in trouble, isn't it good business practice & good manners to make an announcement saying 'yes we are still in business' or 'we are sorry to announce that we are no longer in business and thank you to our customers for travelling with us in the past'.

What are your views on this?

I entirely agree. Whatever line of business you operate in, when you suddenly stop all communication and drop off the radar it is an immediate and very indiscreet signal to all and sundry that you have big problems. Far better to be open and communicate with the public and your customer base, it looks far more professional and there is always a chance that you just might attract the attention of some salvation from somewhere. Plus, if you go down gracefully people are far more likely to have time for you if the company or it's staff resurface to try again later, far less so if you just sank without a trace last time around.

Speaking as somebody who has never attended a railtour, but who obviously has an interest in the railway in general, I do wonder if the market is simply too crowded? Certain stations seem to have a special every weekend, which begs the question where do all the punters come from time and again? It's great that we still have an active mainline heritage traction scene, but in the current climate I suppose it was only a matter of time before the demand started to drop and the supply will of course need to reduce accordingly.

 

[Phil6219]

Speaking as somebody who has never attended a railtour, but who obviously has an interest in the railway in general, I do wonder if the market is simply too crowded? Certain stations seem to have a special every weekend, which begs the question where do all the punters come from time and again? It's great that we still have an active mainline heritage traction scene, but in the current climate I suppose it was only a matter of time before the demand started to drop and the supply will of course need to reduce accordingly.

I wouldn't consider the market too saturated per-say. South of Birmingham it is very much well catered for however in the North of England there are few tours which actually stop and pick up passengers, Spitfire did run a fair number of tours which picked up at stations in the North West & the North East.

Yes there are plenty of tours running through the North but "through" is the keyword, usually Crewe is the last boarding point in the North. It is worth pointing out that there are one or two tours which pick up as they pass (at Wigan for example, there have been a two tours picking up there in the last week, though both tours were almost identical trips to Scotland by different operators). It is nothing in comparison to the number of tours which run in the south.

I should mention that most of these tour companies are all based in the south, and since most stewards are all volunteers it makes a reasonable amount of sense for tours to originate in these areas. It would be swell if we could have a tour picking up around these parts that wasn't class 47 hauled (I love 47s but I'm a little sick of seeing the same WCRC maroon ones over & over). Yes I am also aware that there has been the S&C steam tours over the summer, a welcome addition and hopefully they will be running again next year.

Phil

 

[QJ]

It is nothing in comparison to the number of tours which run in the south.

:roll: I live in the south of the country and I still invariably have to travel the evening before and return the day afterward should I wish to travel on tours that interest me.

 

[Phil6219]

:roll: I live in the south of the country and I still invariably have to travel the evening before and return the day afterward should I wish to travel on tours that interest me.

That happens, but for example if we take a look at what is listed in the brochure that Pathfinder sent me recently, their tours originate from the following stations;

1. Stratford Upon Avon
2. Exeter St Davids
3. Swindon
4. Eastleigh
5. Cardiff
6. Bristol
7. Crewe (heading south)
8. Crewe (Heading North and NE)
9. Crewe (Heading South)
10. Bristol
11. Bristol
12. Bristol (with final pickup in Sheffield)

Now first off I'm using Pathfinder as an example since I actually have their tour listings to hand. I have travelled with them in the past and had a fantastic day.

Now to look at that list above one tour originates at Crewe and has pickups throughout the North (in Manchester and the other side of the Pennines). There is one other tour which while it originates in the south has a boarding point at Sheffield. Other than that all of the other tours listed originate in the south with the exception of the two from Crewe which head south.

It is normal to have to travel as after all it is not possible to have stops all over (even at popular stations along the route). I have had to travel some distances for a number of tours and have no problem with that. The point I was making is that there are a much higher proportion of tours with boarding points in the south and that Spitfire did run a fair number of tours which picked up in the North, also bearing in mind that they too ran tours which were in the south as most of their tours seemed to either start at Crewe, Preston or Birmingham.

Like I said earlier though a fair amount of it comes down to geography and that these tour companies are based down south and mainly rely on volunteer stewards, it would be unfair to ask that they travel distances before they start a tour.

Phil

 

[table38]

I suspect a lot of the problems with stopping patterns are due to pathing issues. This weekends BLS tour has had to drop it's planned Linlithgow pickup/dropoff "due to pathing constraints which would have meant an hour earlier departure and an hour later finish".

Also look at Mr Farrow's tour the following Saturday, where I'll have to start at Crewe and end at Sheffield!

Station             Depart Arrive 
St Albans (for M25) 07.00  21.45 
Bedford             07.45  21.00 
Kettering           08.15  20.30 
Nuneaton            09.10  n/a 
Crewe               10.00  n/a 
Sheffield           n/a    19.10

 

[theblackwatch]

Also look at Mr Farrow's tour the following Saturday, where I'll have to start at Crewe and end at Sheffield!

Station             Depart Arrive 
St Albans (for M25) 07.00  21.45 
Bedford             07.45  21.00 
Kettering           08.15  20.30 
Nuneaton            09.10  n/a 
Crewe               10.00  n/a 
Sheffield           n/a    19.10

And in my case, going down to London on Friday, accommodation in Cricklewood, doing the tour Saturday and alighting at Sheffield. Despite living in 'the north' (where most of the tours start, some people think), Crewe is on the wrong side of the Pennines for me and a 100 mile drive so not particularly convenient. I'm even considering 2 nights acommodation there for a tour I'm doing in December.

 

[Robert Taggart]

Schardenfraude - I love it !

To think, when one was younger, an overnight trip (from Derby then Manchester) by train or coach to catch a railtour (usually from Lundun or Glasgow) was all part of the 'adventure' !!

Now ? No thank you - there be little left (red lines) worth doing. Also, being obese does take its toll - on our arse and knees !!!

A good nights sleep at home - thinking if not dreaming about you all - be more to our liking now !!!!

 

[QJ]

To think, when one was younger, an overnight trip (from Derby then Manchester) by train or coach to catch a railtour (usually from Lundun or Glasgow) was all part of the 'adventure' !!

The apparent demise of Spitfire Tours is to be regretted. I did enjoy the R and B tours they ran (one even stopped at my home town for me to get on - though the original intention was to have boarded at the origin station until a signal failure put paid to that). The class 20+37 to Mallaig was also an unmissable trip.

Despite no longer being a spring chicken overnights still are part of the adventure for me (just returned from travelling from Split to Palermo all by train over two consecutive nights including a plus 2 in Udine). Unfortunately more and more towns and cities in the UK are becoming increasingly inaccessible with the removal of both night trains and buses / coaches that I could rely on in the past. Those overnights that do run tend not to connect because of the very early starts and late finishes inflicted on tours these days.

Lack of tours in a particular area is not a north / south issue but more one of the location of stock and locos available for charter work (hence Eastleigh, Crewe and Bo'ness / Linlithgow [when NR allow]). I live about 25 to 30 miles away from Eastleigh but it may as well be 250 miles away with regards to railtours starting from there owing to the cut backs on public transport over the last twenty years or so from where I live. Fortunately nothing recently advertised from Eastleigh has been of much interest to me. The one that was got postponed to some time in the future.

I have taken to working at weekends so I am not so tempted to bankrupt myself attempting to travel on those railtours (home and abroad) that do interest me (upcoming Pathfinder and BLS tours notwithstanding). Occasionally I get lucky and work location and railtour pick up point coincide. Then one pays for the other.

The other issue is the uncertainty over whether a tour will run over the advertised route with the advertised traction on the advertised day. Having been caught out by tours being cancelled after incurring non refundable hotel costs I am very reluctant to shell out these days. I suspect others are increasingly wary of incurring up front costs (accommodation and/or travel) that cannot be recovered in the event of a tour cancellation. This inevitably impacts on the viability of tours as people wait to see if it will run before committing. I suspect this has had an impact on the viability of tour promoters like Spitfire. I won't mention the recession.