Solihull to Portslade / Falmer

[BorisWiffWaff]

Hi

I've usually only bought straight returns rather than a via option, so bear with me.

I need to be in Portslade by 1230 tomorrow afternoon and then from there I will travel from Portslade to Falmer (to watch Brighton football) and then travel back to Solihull from Falmer (leaving Falmer at 1930ish)

My Brighton match ticket will cover the Portslade to Falmer journey. So should I buy a Solihull to Portslade off peak return and the match ticket will cover me for the rest?

I'm an adult with no railcards.

 

[SS4]

Yes, you can get a ticket from Solihull to Portslade and then use the ticket to cover the rest of the journey as long as the train stops/you have to change at Portslade.

Route "via High Wycombe" tickets (i.e Chiltern) will be cheaper than Any Permitted


edit: Removed incorrect info, see posters below (hope it's right now!)

 

[SussexMan]

Yes, you can get a ticket from Solihull to Portslade and then use the ticket to cover the rest of the journey as long as the train stops/you have to change at Portslade.
Mind you the fare is the same to Falmer as it is to Portslade so you wouldn't lose any money by buying to Falmer though if it helps your peace of mind.

Route "via High Wycombe" tickets (i.e Chiltern) will be cheaper than Any Permitted

Can I check what you are saying? If BorisWiffWaff buys a ticket Solihull to Falmer, is that valid to Portslade? Not quite sure why it is so if it is, can you explain?

If BorisWiffWaff buys a Solihull to Portslade then the outward journey is fine and the Portslade to Falmer is covered by the football ticket. To get back, the football ticket would cover Falmer to Brighton and then presumably BorrisWiffWaff could then get a Brighton - London train on the basis that Portslade to London is valid via Brighton and he is just starting short?

Seagulls are doing OK at the moment!

 

[wintonian]

If BorisWiffWaff buys a Solihull to Portslade then the outward journey is fine and the Portslade to Falmer is covered by the football ticket. To get back, the football ticket would cover Falmer to Brighton and then presumably BorrisWiffWaff could then get a Brighton - London train on the basis that Portslade to London is valid via Brighton and he is just starting short?

That is my understanding.

In order to get to Falmer from Portslade on a ticket from solihull you would need to double back through Preston Park or Brighton for which the ticket would not be valid. This is due to Portslade being on the West coastway and Falmer being the other side of Brighton on the East Coastway.

In a nutshell there is no problem with Solihull to Portslade but the OP would then need to use the match ticket to get from Portsalde to Falmer.

Going back to Solihull that ticket is valid from Brighton so the OP only needs to use the match ticket to get back to Brighton on the way home.

 

[tony6499]

Buy a return to Brighton as that covers Portslade/Falmer and your match ticket covers the travel from Portslade to Falmer

 

[SussexMan]

Buy a return to Brighton as that covers Portslade/Falmer and your match ticket covers the travel from Portslade to Falmer

Really? So you buy a ticket to Brighton, you get to Brighton and then change trains and go to Falmer, even though you've already reached your destination? Please can you explain how a ticket to Brighton is valid to Falmer - unless of course you are coming from Lewes.

 

[wintonian]

Really? So you buy a ticket to Brighton, you get to Brighton and then change trains and go to Falmer, even though you've already reached your destination? Please can you explain how a ticket to Brighton is valid to Falmer - unless of course you are coming from Lewes.

It isn't, a ticket from Solihull to Brighton will not get you to either Portsalde (Unless Horsham is a valid route which I doubt) or Falmer (unless going via Lewes is a valid route which I also doubt) although the cost of a ticket from Solihull to Portslade or Falmer may cost the same but that doesn't mean it is valid.

 

[bb21]

It isn't, a ticket from Solihull to Brighton will not get you to either Portsalde (Unless Horsham is a valid route which I doubt) or Falmer (unless going via Lewes is a valid route which I also doubt) although the cost of a ticket from Solihull to Portslade or Falmer may cost the same but that doesn't mean it is valid.

Interestingly, he is almost correct.

Valid via Portslade if travelling via Banbury, Basingstoke, Portsmouth and then along the coast (however this would not be valid on a Route +Via High Wycombe ticket without an excess being charged).

Valid via Falmer as Haywards Heath - Lewes - Brighton is a permitted route for Brighton Group - London Group and LONDON is one of the routeing options between Brighton Group and any of Tyseley, Warwick Group or Stratford-upon-Avon Group, all of which are appropriate RPs for Solihull for this journey.

 

[wintonian]

That is interesting,

admittedly I hadn't checked the routing guide (I think that was obvious) particularly via Lewes although Reading - Basingstoke - Havant - Chichester - Brighton seems rather roundabout as well as being quite slow along the coast.

 

[tony6499]

A ticket to Brighton from London or north of is valid to Portslade or Falmer via the Cliftonville spur or via Lewes. I should know as I work on the route and same with a Brighton ticket going northbound that is valid from Falmer or Portslade. Seen many people arrive at Brighton with a ticket from London then buy another ticket to Falmer or Portslade when it is not required

 

[SussexMan]

A ticket to Brighton from London or north of is valid to Portslade or Falmer via the Cliftonville spur or via Lewes. I should know as I work on the route and same with a Brighton ticket going northbound that is valid from Falmer or Portslade. Seen many people arrive at Brighton with a ticket from London then buy another ticket to Falmer or Portslade when it is not required

Can you help explain this for me as you work the route.

I understand that you can get to Falmer from London with a London/Brighton ticket if you travel via Lewes and your ticket allows you to stop short.

Can you with a London/Brighton ticket go to Brighton (via the BML) and then still get on a train from Brighton to Falmer even though you have already reached your destination? I am assuming not.

If you have a London/Brighton ticket you can take a train using the Cliftonville Spur and travel via Hove and then on to Brighton, but am I right in thinking that you can't go beyond Hove because then you would be doubling back through Hove to get back to Brighton. If so, how can you then use a London/Brighton ticket to travel to Portslade? Or are you saying that you can go to Portslade and get off because then you are not doubling back. But if that is the case, how far along the West Coastway could you go?

 

[bb21]

Can you with a London/Brighton ticket go to Brighton (via the BML) and then still get on a train from Brighton to Falmer even though you have already reached your destination? I am assuming not.

You are correct. To do so will be over-riding. You can however, if you have a return ticket, commence your return journey at Brighton and break your journey at Falmer.

but am I right in thinking that you can't go beyond Hove because then you would be doubling back through Hove to get back to Brighton. If so, how can you then use a London/Brighton ticket to travel to Portslade?

I believe you are correct, and the ticket is not valid via/to Portslade in my opinion unless there are local easements permitting this.

 

[BorisWiffWaff]

In the end I bought a Solihull to Brighton return. If I'd arrived within 3 hours of kick off then I could use the match ticket to get to Portslade and Falmer. As I arrived earlier than this I bought a £2.40 single from Brighton to Portslade.

Unfortunately there is a severe lack of ticket facilities in Brighton and I should really have bought the single off the guard on the train in hindsight (although these seem to be a rarity in this neck of the woods!)

I then used a bus no. 6 from Aldrington to Brighton station and train to Falmer with my match ticket. This integrated public transport with your match ticket is a novelty in this country but very common in Germany.

Thanks for the info, chaps.

 

[N Levers]

In the end I bought a Solihull to Brighton return. If I'd arrived within 3 hours of kick off then I could use the match ticket to get to Portslade and Falmer. As I arrived earlier than this I bought a £2.40 single from Brighton to Portslade.

Unfortunately there is a severe lack of ticket facilities in Brighton and I should really have bought the single off the guard on the train in hindsight (although these seem to be a rarity in this neck of the woods!)

I then used a bus no. 6 from Aldrington to Brighton station and train to Falmer with my match ticket. This integrated public transport with your match ticket is a novelty in this country but very common in Germany.

Thanks for the info, chaps.

A severe lack of facilities?...

Really?...

 

[tony6499]

Can you help explain this for me as you work the route.

I understand that you can get to Falmer from London with a London/Brighton ticket if you travel via Lewes and your ticket allows you to stop short.

Can you with a London/Brighton ticket go to Brighton (via the BML) and then still get on a train from Brighton to Falmer even though you have already reached your destination? I am assuming not.

If you have a London/Brighton ticket you can take a train using the Cliftonville Spur and travel via Hove and then on to Brighton, but am I right in thinking that you can't go beyond Hove because then you would be doubling back through Hove to get back to Brighton. If so, how can you then use a London/Brighton ticket to travel to Portslade? Or are you saying that you can go to Portslade and get off because then you are not doubling back. But if that is the case, how far along the West Coastway could you go?

A London to Brighton ticket is valid to alight at any station between Portslade and Falmer, so if you go to Falmer it is ok to go into Brighton and then out to Falmer using that ticket. Something to do with it being a grouped station and the same fare, although you can't break your journey and get out at Brighton and then want to travel on to Falmer with the same ticket.

 

[wintonian]

A London to Brighton ticket is valid to alight at any station between Portslade and Falmer, so if you go to Falmer it is ok to go into Brighton and then out to Falmer using that ticket. Something to do with it being a grouped station and the same fare, although you can't break your journey and get out at Brighton and then want to travel on to Falmer with the same ticket.

In this case it is my opinion that you would be overriding (whether the fare is the same is irrelevant), however breaking your journey at Falmer on the way to Brighton after interchanging at Lewes would be permitted.

Group stations only allow you to double-back for interchange purposes on the way to your destination, not to override your destination and alight somewhere else - that is what excess fares are for.

 

[SussexMan]

A London to Brighton ticket is valid to alight at any station between Portslade and Falmer, so if you go to Falmer it is ok to go into Brighton and then out to Falmer using that ticket. Something to do with it being a grouped station and the same fare, although you can't break your journey and get out at Brighton and then want to travel on to Falmer with the same ticket.

Please can you provide the rationale for your thinking beyond just "...it is OK to...". As you work the route perhaps you can explain a little more.

I can see on National Rail Enquiries that there appears to be a "Brighton - [All Stations]" option but I can find out nothing about it on that site.

Wikipedia seems to suggest that the Brighton Stations Group is defunct.

However, the price of a ticket to Portslade from London seems to be 10p more than a ticket to Brighton. Does the "Brighton Stations" group really exist?

Also, are you saying you can travel to Portslade on a London/Brighton ticket but you can't travel to Brighton via Portslade? That seems a bit strange.

Can you or anyone else help out a bit?

 

[wintonian]

Please can you provide the rationale for your thinking beyond just "...it is OK to...". As you work the route perhaps you can explain a little more.

I can see on National Rail Enquiries that there appears to be a "Brighton - [All Stations]" option but I can find out nothing about it on that site.

Wikipedia seems to suggest that the Brighton Stations Group is defunct.

However, the price of a ticket to Portslade from London seems to be 10p more than a ticket to Brighton. Does the "Brighton Stations" group really exist?

Also, are you saying you can travel to Portslade on a London/Brighton ticket but you can't travel to Brighton via Portslade? That seems a bit strange.

Can you or anyone else help out a bit?

The Brighton stations group does indeed exist, however it only consists of Brighton and Hove stations meaning that these are the only two stations you can double back through for interchange purposes.

As for Potslade I believe it is only valid there if travelling Solihull - Reading - Basingstoke - Fareham (direct or via Southampton Central) - Havant - Brighton.

and as I said earlier Falmer is only a valid route if travelling via Lewes where you need to interchange to prevent you ending up in Eastbourne.

The Wikipedia article you linked to appears to show those stations combined for fares & ticketing purposes (i'e' Portsmouth Stations which consists of Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour) not 'routing groups' that appear in the routing Guide as we are referring to here (i.e. Portsmouth Group which includes both Portsmouth stations plus others such as Fareham and Bedhampton.

 

[BorisWiffWaff]

A severe lack of facilities?...

Really?...

Yes, having passed through Brighton twice in the day and there were huge queues both times at the ticket machines and the ticket office. So, my assumption is there is not enough capacity for the number of customers they are trying to serve. Saturday is off peak too.

Also, I was interested to read you cannot make a break of journey at Brighton for a Falmer ticket which explains why my friend had to be let out of the barrier manually at Brighton. So if the connecting train is not ready for Falmer then you cannot leave the platforms to get a drink etc?

 

[wintonian]

Yes, having passed through Brighton twice in the day and there were huge queues both times at the ticket machines and the ticket office. So, my assumption is there is not enough capacity for the number of customers they are trying to serve. Saturday is off peak too.

Also, I was interested to read you cannot make a break of journey at Brighton for a Falmer ticket which explains why my friend had to be let out of the barrier manually at Brighton. So if the connecting train is not ready for Falmer then you cannot leave the platforms to get a drink etc?

If using a Solihull - Falmer (or Brighton when interchanging at Lewes) ticket then break of journey should be permitted, in any case using station facilities in not breaking your journey.

The trouble with Brighton is its too small and almost every time I interchange or get off there it is overcrowded, including long ticket office queues - I find it best to avoid it and use Clapham Junction - Lewes (in my case) to go round but this unfortunately does cost more than double (£30 more) in the morning

 

[bb21]

A London to Brighton ticket is valid to alight at any station between Portslade and Falmer

I am intrigued by this. I am surprised to learn that a London Terminals - Brighton ticket is valid via/at Portslade and intermediate stations to Hove. Can you explain why?

I can see on National Rail Enquiries that there appears to be a "Brighton - [All Stations]" option but I can find out nothing about it on that site.

Wikipedia seems to suggest that the Brighton Stations Group is defunct.

That is correct. There is no longer a Brighton Stations Group. There is however a Brighton Group Routeing Point which consists of Brighton and Hove.

 

[tony6499]

I am intrigued by this. I am surprised to learn that a London Terminals - Brighton ticket is valid via/at Portslade and intermediate stations to Hove. Can you explain why?

.

No can't explain as I've been told just to accept the tickets are valid to these stations and via those routes

 

[bb21]

That is most interesting. It seems like there is a local (unconfirmed) easement in place.

 

[wintonian]

No can't explain as I've been told just to accept the tickets are valid to these stations and via those routes

or possibly what was communicated was different to what the person thought they were communicating.

That is most interesting. It seems like there is a local (unconfirmed) easement in place.

Were you told this verbally?

Do you know the reasoning behind this?

 

[SussexMan]

No can't explain as I've been told just to accept the tickets are valid to these stations and via those routes

Maybe it's just me but the first thing I would do if "management" said "just accept them" would be to ask "why?".

The current ticketing rules seem to suggest that such tickets are not valid. Presumably when you were told to just accept them you or colleagues asked questions along the lines of:

Is it just tickets from London? What about East Croydon, Crawley, Gatwick etc?

What about tickets from the East or West? Or is it just some special arrangement trains from the north?

I assume you work for Southern not FCC. Perhaps it is time to ask Southern if this is a local decision which they haven't told anyone about apart from their own staff? I wouldn't want to risk travelling on such a ticket on the back of an anonymous person who works for a TOC saying it's fine on an online forum.

 

[bb21]

Were you told this verbally?

Do you know the reasoning behind this?

No. I am deducing from tony6499's posts.

 

[wintonian]

No. I am deducing from tony6499's posts.

Sorry I was atualy meaning to ask tony6499 and not your good self.

 

[tony6499]

Sorry I was atualy meaning to ask tony6499 and not your good self.

Sorry can't elaborate as it is something that happens, I'm sure it is in writing somewhere and if I can locate it I will let you know

 

[maniacmartin]

A London to Brighton ticket is valid to alight at any station between Portslade and Falmer, so if you go to Falmer it is ok to go into Brighton and then out to Falmer using that ticket. Something to do with it being a grouped station and the same fare, although you can't break your journey and get out at Brighton and then want to travel on to Falmer with the same ticket.

Are you sure about this? I'm yet to be convinced