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Crossrail Rolling stock receives state guarantee

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fgwrich

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Just noticed this in an email from NCE, although you can read the FT Article for free. Looks like finnaly the rolling stock precurement can go ahead. Wonder how Thameslink is fairing though?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9ee6ab3c-0635-11e2-bd29-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz27ick46Gy

Crossrail trains to receive state guarantee

By Jim Pickard, Gill Plimmer and Mark Odell

©Bloomberg

The £1bn order for new trains for the Crossrail east-west London rail line will be among the first recipients of a government guarantee designed to revive investment in essential infrastructure, Danny Alexander will announce on Tuesday.

Mr Alexander, chief secretary to the Treasury believes the guarantee will drive down the cost of the rolling stock order, which was launched in February. Industry sources are sceptical the move would cut the costs of borrowing for banks but acknowledge a guarantee should make it easier to secure financing, a problem that has led to delays on two other large rolling stock contracts, including the controversial Siemens contract for Thameslink.

The order is for a depot and 60 trains to be used on the new £15bn route, linking Heathrow in the west and Canary Wharf in the east. Four companies are interested – Siemens, Bombardier, Hitachi and CAF of Spain – and are expected to bid formally by the end of October.

The government was already providing 30 per cent of the funding for rolling stock and will say on Tuesday that it is prepared to guarantee the remainder, which will be financed as a private finance initiative.

The outlines of the new government guarantee scheme were first announced by George Osborne in July, with the chancellor suggesting tens of billions of pounds of projects could be underwritten.

The Financial Times has learnt Mr Alexander will use his speech on Tuesday at the Liberal Democrat conference in Brighton to flesh out how the scheme will work.

Separately, ministers have also been drawing up plans to underwrite a new “super-sewer” under London, a £3.6bn project designed to end the dumping of untreated effluent in the Thames river.

The project, being overseen by Thames Water, involves a 20-mile tunnel under the Thames between Acton in the west and Tower Bridge to the east. It has provoked controversy because it threatens to create years of “building blight” for residents in some of London’s most affluent riverside areas. The project is being considered for a Treasury guarantee but this has not yet been signed off.

The company said the relevant bill had paved the way for the government to provide “contingent” support for exceptional risks.

“The Water Industry (Financial Assistance) Act received royal assent on 1 May 2012. This legislation enables the government to provide contingent financial support for exceptional risks in the construction of the project,” said Phil Stride, head of the Thames Tideway Tunnel project. “We are currently in discussion with government on what form this financial support will take.”

The Treasury refused to comment.

The government appears to have relaxed one of its key criteria for guarantees – neither the super-sewer nor the Crossrail rolling stock schemes will be “shovel ready” within 12 months.

Ministers said in July that the Treasury would charge a levy on the initiative, which would cover risks on specific projects, whether that is construction or revenue risk. They came up with this idea, in part, because they believe this should encourage pension funds and bond markets to invest in infrastructure.

A second element of the scheme is a “temporary lending programme” that allows the government to invest money alongside private finance, where there is not enough commercial appetite.

That scheme, which could help up to £6bn of projects, is, in effect, a relaunch of a unit called the Treasury infrastructure finance unit that was closed after the 2010 general election.

The overall scheme was set up because of a withering of long-term lending to infrastructure by commercial banks, a situation that may worsen once banks have adjusted their lending policies as a result of the new Basel III lending rules.

Companies have also found it harder to get projects off the ground since the collapse of the monoline insurance market – a source of guarantees to issuers of bonds to enhance their credit rating – five years ago. There have been only a few tentative attempts by the private sector to replace that service.

Ministers have put increasing emphasis on using infrastructure investment to create economic growth but deep capital cuts during the last spending review make this more challenging.

Mr Alexander on Sunday night launched a forum for the infrastructure industry to engage with ministers: the National Infrastructure Plan Strategic Engagement Forum.

Richard Threlfall, head of infrastructure at KPMG, said the guarantee was about as “bold a move” as the government could make on unlocking finance. “It provides a basis for pension funds and bond financing of all Britain’s infrastructure needs,” he said.

Additional reporting by Michael Kavanagh

Or, if the above link doesn't work, here is an article via news agency Reuters
.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/24/britain-crossrail-idUSL5E8KO9TK20120924
 
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ainsworth74

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Which pretty much guarantees that we're going to have miles of wires with no electric stock to run on them...
 

D365

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Eight (nine with one being rebuilt) 317/7s and 15 decaying 508s. Sure, that'll do nicely. We have a number of 90s in store but barely any rolling stock, not that that would be suitable. Crazy...
 

Yew

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Eight (nine with one being rebuilt) 317/7s and 15 decaying 508s. Sure, that'll do nicely. We have a number of 90s in store but barely any rolling stock, not that that would be suitable. Crazy...

The onlymic MK2 rakes :D
 

ainsworth74

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Eight (nine with one being rebuilt) 317/7s and 15 decaying 508s. Sure, that'll do nicely. We have a number of 90s in store but barely any rolling stock, not that that would be suitable. Crazy...

Seeing as there were supposed to be something like eighty-six 319s made available for services on the GWML and the Lancashire Triangle it's going take more than nine 317s and fifteen 508s (which are in terrible condition and are third-rail only so they don't really help in anyway at all) to cover for them. As for 90s and LHCS that's an option but not a very good one and I feel given the choice between retraining a load of guards and drivers onto 90s+LHCS (and then again onto EMUs a few years later) and just continuing with DMUs most TOCs are going to stick with their DMUs.
 

fgwrich

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I think with regards to 319s on the GWML it's going to be a case of waiting and seeing what happeneds, as First still seem to be flirting / hinting at the idea of a new build.
 

tbtc

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I think with regards to 319s on the GWML it's going to be a case of waiting and seeing what happeneds, as First still seem to be flirting / hinting at the idea of a new build.

It's not for First to decide though - all depends on who wins the franchise when its awarded.
 

Class377/5

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Of course we have the TPE services but local services to Liverpool for example? Or down the GWML (assuming that a new build of EMUs isn't the taken option)?

That's due in 2014 so there is time yet. The 319 release dates should be known soon-ish.
 

D365

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Release date is know; NEVER! In all seriousness, they'll be available at about 2018 the earliest after upgrades, of the type being trialled on 317722 I belive.
 

D365

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Much as the A14 Huntindon/Cambridge upgrade was supposed to be opened two years ago. WCML full in 10 years? This strech of road has been full for at least ten!

Sorry, at least the Olympics kinda helped to speed up some upgrades in and around London... My dad will probably have retired (in 10-20 years) before he gets to enjoy his luxurious new trainsets!
 

Class377/5

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Much like the contract for Thameslink has been supposed to be signed soon-ish for quite a long time now? :lol:

Having inside info, I'm fairly sure it'll be sorted soon.

Release date is know; NEVER! In all seriousness, they'll be available at about 2018 the earliest after upgrades, of the type being trialled on 317722 I belive.

Er they don't need to refurbish the units if they really need to. They can have units running around way before then, there is 8 'spare' units currently. Im sure the locals will prefer a second hand 4 car unit than a two car unit.
 

D365

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Having inside info, I'm fairly sure it'll be sorted soon.

Didn't the necessary government officials claim that it would be a done deal this summer/July? The contract is supposed to be signed by the end of the year, but I'm having my doubts.

Er they don't need to refurbish the units if they really need to. They can have units running around way before then, there is 8 'spare' units currently. Im sure the locals will prefer a second hand 4 car unit than a two car unit.

I'm not sure about the internal condition of the 317/7s or 319s, but the latter is being used very intensively. As 319s are released by '700s', wouldn't it be more efficient to take them straight to the refurbishment works site and thereafter to GW/The North?

8 317/7s could be used as soon as required, and rebuilt alongside the other 317s or 319s as and when this takes place; hopefully all EMUs up to 365/pre-privatisation will receive the new traction/interior.
 

Class377/5

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Oh I don't doubt you, it's just we've been in a holding pattern for quite a while now ;)

Didn't the necessary government officials claim that it would be a done deal this summer/July? The contract is supposed to be signed by the end of the year, but I'm having my doubts.

Well there's been a good reason why its dragged on and its not what people think. I was surprised to the reason but it may not come out for some time why. I found out from a few sources over it so I'm waiting to see when they will announce and should becdone this year.

I'm not sure about the internal condition of the 317/7s or 319s, but the latter is being used very intensively. As 319s are released by '700s', wouldn't it be more efficient to take them straight to the refurbishment works site and thereafter to GW/The North?

8 317/7s could be used as soon as required, and rebuilt alongside the other 317s or 319s as and when this takes place; hopefully all EMUs up to 365/pre-privatisation will receive the new traction/interior.

Some 319's will be able to move up north straight away in an ok condition. Mainly thinking the 319/3. However the release on the 319's is supposed to happen after the 377's go back to Southern. But with the 377/6's ordered it may all change. The new franchise bidders will be the key to what is released when. So we won't know properly until April 2013 for sure.

I guess what we'll see is units transferred then refurbished one by one starting with the 319/0's first.
 

MCR247

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I thought 319s are no longer in a very good mechanical condition since they pretty much got run into the ground to cover for 377/5s
 

D365

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Work has been done on improving 319 reliability. I belive they will receive the full treatment with Bombardier AC traction when leaving Thameslink - which is being trialled on 317722 soon.
 

HSTEd

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Ah yay, yet another PFI that will drain valuable resources out of state coffers for no other reason than to hold down the conventional state borrowing figures and thus provide soundbites.
 

D365

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No, it was cancelled two years ago. Reason being simply "it's unaffordable".

When the A14 upgrade was initially planned at the start of the 2000s, it was supposed to be fully open in 2010. There's an accident every other day, sending traffic through Godmanchester/Huntingdon over a crumbling old bridge, and if you live along the corridor, you can will why the, or rather any upgrade is needed, especially with the number of new homes planned. I could rant for a lot longer, but that would be taking this way off-topic! The only thing I'm saying is, do nothing is not an option. It's dangerous.


Ah yay, yet another PFI that will drain valuable resources out of state coffers for no other reason than to hold down the conventional state borrowing figures and thus provide soundbites.
Whopee, my favourite...
 
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Class377/5

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I thought 319s are no longer in a very good mechanical condition since they pretty much got run into the ground to cover for 377/5s

Some works already been done but plan is for a major over haul of the units are being released from Thameslink duties.

They have indeed been run into the ground but efforts have been made to deal with the worst of this. Generally they are too bad these days.
 
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