Following the recent passengers revolt on FGW I thought we had seen the end of overcrowded trains,not so.Last saturday morning a FGW class 150 Penzance to Plymouth service departed Truro full and standing leaving hoards stranded at intermediate stations Truro through to Plymouth apparently the second Saturday running this has happened according to staff.Few people this far west including some of their own employees I have spoken too have any confidence in FGW management or the Dft.It would seem that Exeter remains the western limit of railway civilisation in the southwest.
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FGW transforming travel
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devon_metro
Established Member
Make that Newton Abbot, it is from there that we only reach 75mp tops. Unless there is a 90 section near Hemmerdon. Shame really, needs some money!
Its not much better at the other end of FGW to be honest.
A shortage of train crew means that over the last couple of weeks there have been numerous cancelations on the Reading to Redhill service.
The morning Brighton to Cardiff service seems frequently to be formed of a 150 as the only stock FGW have available.
A friend in the know reckons its only a matter of time before First are sacked.
A shortage of train crew means that over the last couple of weeks there have been numerous cancelations on the Reading to Redhill service.
The morning Brighton to Cardiff service seems frequently to be formed of a 150 as the only stock FGW have available.
A friend in the know reckons its only a matter of time before First are sacked.
Come to Bristol and you can have free travel on many of FGW's local services! You can't get on one of First's buses without paying so why can you travel for free on one of FGW's trains? Surely they need every penny they can collect so why is my ticket never checked on some services while those without a ticket travel for free.
Expect things to get worse as according to Alison Forster, FGW (former Wessex area) have 12 more trains than they should have. If 12 go back to the leasing company in the near future as has been rumoured then expect more cancellations as she has said that St Phillips Marsh won't be fully operational until September and there still quite a few units out of service.
And I thought Wessex Trains were bad...
Expect things to get worse as according to Alison Forster, FGW (former Wessex area) have 12 more trains than they should have. If 12 go back to the leasing company in the near future as has been rumoured then expect more cancellations as she has said that St Phillips Marsh won't be fully operational until September and there still quite a few units out of service.
And I thought Wessex Trains were bad...
devon_metro
Established Member
Its bad enough WITH the extra 12 trains. I dread to think what it will be like without them. I thought the government was meant to encourage publc transport, instead they totally ruin it. B*stards
It is the 1 hour rail journey time between Exeter and Plymouth which is the real killer in the market place especially when it can be easily driven in 45 mins.Until the Dft address this historical problem the railways will continue to struggle west of Newton Abbot.It is no good the the green lobby bashing the airlines for providing services that the public want and the railways can no longer provide due to outdated rail infrastructure this far west.
devon_metro
Established Member
Indeed, Exeter-Newton Abbot is 20mins, and for roughly the same length, Newton Abbot-Plymouth is a wopping 40 mins!
Personally I have flown to Plymouth from London Gatwick ever since the railway had the fiasco following the Hatfield Crisis when due to unneccesary speed limits it took 7 hours to get to London. I dont think there is sufficent demand to justify new rail infrastructure west of Exeter. In fact for much of the year I'd say there isnt sufficent demand to justify the Rail Service the West Currently enjoys. I know the Brighton Rail User Groups have pointed out to the Dft that there is far more justification for retaining the XC services to Brighton and Gatwick than there is for XC services beyond Plymouth.
devon_metro
Established Member
I would disagree, in my experience services out of Newton Abbot are all used well, Plymouth is fairly quiet on the other hand but it would be a major blow to loose services and would make things even quieter, so its a gamble that in my opinion needs to be taken. I'm sure there are a few quiet spots along the XC network and as Plymouth is towards the end of it it then can be expected to have less passengers! Also for general commuters they follow a fGW HST with a 20 minute gap. It would make more sence to, at plymouth have xx.00 departures for services to London and xx.30 services for XC, with some re-jigging at peak hour. This would provide a better spaced and more economical serivice in my opinion, although this is porbably difficult as there is such a large area that would be effected by these time changes!
Newquay airport has hit back at environmental campaigners after failed attempts to convert flyers to rail travel.
http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displa...tentPK=16922339&folderPk=91672&pNodeId=142722
http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displa...tentPK=16922339&folderPk=91672&pNodeId=142722
ChrisCooper
Established Member
Of cource, when working out the relative times for rail and air, they fail to take into account check in times and time taken to get through the airport at the other end (oviously, that would vary if you have checked bagage or not). Then again, these sort of manipulations are often made by people trying to make one form of transport seem superior to others (and it's done for rail aswell). Also, whilst the trains might not be that reliable, the planes arn't 100% reliable either, especilly when flying to and from a busy airport like Gatwick. That said, it's noticable that trains often loose out in situations where the journey times for alternate modes are similar, with reliability being the issue, so it shows more needs to be done to improve reliability and punctuality.
Overall though, I'm not against domestic air travel by a long way, and whilst I've never done it myself, there are quite a few journies where I would use air were I to make them, and others where I would use air if flights were available (East Midlands, my local airport, only has Scottish destinations on the British mainland). I can see flights like Newquay to Gatwick being particularly useful for people wanting to travel to Gatwick (particularly the airport itself) or the surrounding area, including the south cost. One thing trains tend to be particularly poor for is journies requring crossing London, since this can add around an hour to the journey time, and isn't the easiest thing when travelling with lots of luggage, family or both, yet routes bypassing London are often very slow, and likely still involve quite a few changes.
Overall though, I'm not against domestic air travel by a long way, and whilst I've never done it myself, there are quite a few journies where I would use air were I to make them, and others where I would use air if flights were available (East Midlands, my local airport, only has Scottish destinations on the British mainland). I can see flights like Newquay to Gatwick being particularly useful for people wanting to travel to Gatwick (particularly the airport itself) or the surrounding area, including the south cost. One thing trains tend to be particularly poor for is journies requring crossing London, since this can add around an hour to the journey time, and isn't the easiest thing when travelling with lots of luggage, family or both, yet routes bypassing London are often very slow, and likely still involve quite a few changes.
All very well you saying that, but A)Bristol TM (where a lot of the commuters go) has Ticket barriers and B)It is soon to be come a PF zone, so no not really a good suggestion
Disagree with your last comment, I have never been able to get a seat on a Penzance Voyager in 7 attempts
It wasn't actually a suggestion - I was being sarcastic. I'm sorry you missed my point!
It was having a dig at the FGW conductors who make no attempt at checking tickets even after stopping at an unmanned station, picking up 20+ passengers and dropping them off at another unmanned station - this happens daily as it did tonight on my journey home. I admit that the overcrowding problem on some services doesn't help and probably discourages the conductor to move through the train but how are penalty fares going to help here if conductors don't check tickets? Regulars on some routes will still continue not to pay.
Interestingly in contrast to Exeter and Newquay airports Plymouths airport is actually loosing passengers so there is still hope for rail here if FGW/Dft could get their act together.
http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displa...tentPK=16931698&folderPk=83096&pNodeId=220560
I think that Plymouths loss of passengers is mainly due to AirWales going bankrupt in 2006. The main Plymouth to LGW service has been fairly unchanged over the last 5 years. As it is only 4 planes (200) seats a day I think its somewhat of a niche market.
Newquay is probably growing a weekend and short break market from London and the South East by air that rail would never be able to provide. That Greenpeace tries to persuade passengers to transfer to rail when the line is closed for engineering works just shows how badly thought out may of their campaigns are.
Newquay is probably growing a weekend and short break market from London and the South East by air that rail would never be able to provide. That Greenpeace tries to persuade passengers to transfer to rail when the line is closed for engineering works just shows how badly thought out may of their campaigns are.
devon_metro
Established Member
fGW need to encourage rail travel, and maybe offer very cheap tickets on their least busy services for say a month, so people can experience train travel and then make their own mind up.
Quite agree,if FGW cant improve the journey time between Plymouth and Paddington to match 21st century expectations then they have to price their product more realistically if they want to compete.
It is no good charging 21st century prices for what is still basically a 20 century service.Since the HSTs were introduced there has been massive investment in the trunk road network in the south west whiich is still ongoing,it is this that that is the real competition from Plymouth not the "niche" air market.
Shortage of service between reading and redhill? Dose that include Farnbourgh North on that line?
tudy:The Idea of transforming is starting to screw up travel!
The reality is that demand for London to Exeter Services is very high and that its not in Firsts interests to fill those trains up with ultra cheap tickets from West of there. I reckon First would be better off running the current London to Plymouth Services via Bristol Parkway and terminating a lot of the current services at Exeter. A connecting DMU could then be run from Exeter to Plymouth. it could then call additionally at Ivybridge which probably has as much "Intercity" potential as Totnes.
I think if that were to happen it would only be a short step to terminating all rail services at Exeter which to be frank is what FGW and the DFT would do tomorrow if they could get away with it politically.
devon_metro
Established Member
Most trains i travel on south of exeter are packed. Why go via Bristol Parkway, that means not only would we have journey cuts but we would be more prone to delays and longer journey times!
Virgin currently cover Bristol Parkway-Plymouth
devon_metro
Established Member
Hence why I find these claims un-realistic. Theres only a few train i have been on down here that are not busy at one point of their journey. Take the 1150 Exeter (ex Exmouth) - Paignton on a saturday...
Well and truly packed!
I dont think thats so.
Most of the Penzance to London Services that I board at Plymouth are generally very well loaded. However this is certainly not the case for some of the services that start at Plymouth I am thinking of mid week services in the late morning to mid afternoon slots when its not uncommon for there to be no first class passengers at all and only 1 or 2 passengers in each coach in standard. Totnes rarely has more than a handfull of passengers to offer these trains. The same is true in the opposite direction. its a waste of resources to have these trains bimbling over the banks empty. A connecting DMU would be much more appropriate.
devon_metro
Established Member
And send them to Paignton instead 
nath9425
Member
Hence my Profile Picture! Matches the thread dont you think!
I think we should be looking to the future and not the past,after many years of stagnation the economy of Plymouth is now growing fast second only to Bristol as a Westcountry economic hotspot and this will in itself lead to increased demand for rail travel which is there to be tapped(nearly 400,000 people live within a 5 mile radius of Devonport Dockyard,so come on Network rail and the TOCs there is life west of Exeter.
ChrisM
Member
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I remember when First first took over and they cancelled a few services due to leave Southampton due to staff shortages including a Portsmouth to Cardiff service so everyone jumped on the next Southampton to Bristol service which was a 153 that was so packed that the Guard asked people to leave as she could not get on and things haven't improved much since on the Portsmouth to Cardiff route.
Gone are the days of a 33 + 5/6 coaches.
Gone are the days of a 33 + 5/6 coaches.
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