A trip across Eastern Europe next year by train (some buses!)

[Chapeltom]

Ignore the dates, these aren't real but it will hopefully be a real trip in about 8 months time. Here's a planned schedule for a trip round Eastern Europe. And I have of course a number of questions.

It will be and a mate with a budget of £1300 each I reckon, all costs in that. We are wanting a rough feel of each city and to try the beer, the local food etc. We've got a good idea of what we want to do in each city but of course would love any advice/recommendations, flights of course will need to be booked at either end.

Mon 3rd June
0715 to 1235 - Flight from Manchester to Sofia
Get into Sofia for 1:30pm
Eat/Hostel in Sofia (1)

Tues 4th June
Day in Sofia
Train to Bucharest - 2030 to 0625

Wed 5th June - Day in Bucharest
Arrival at 0625
Eat/Hostel in Bucharest (2)

Thu 6th June - Day in Bucharest
Train to Chisinau - 1910 to 0810

Fri 7th June - Day in Chisinau
Arrival at 0810
Eat/Hostel in Chisinau (3)

Sat 8th June - Day in Chisinau
Overnight bus/train to Kiev

Sun 9th June - Day in Kiev
Arrival at 0930 ish
Eat/Hostel in Kiev (4)

Mon 10th June - Day in Kiev
Train to Minsk - 2130 to 0835

Tues 11th June - Day in Minsk
Arrival at 0835
Eat/Hostel in Minsk (5)

Wed 12th June - Day in Minsk
Eat/Hostel in Minsk (6)

Thu 13th June - Travel to Vilnius
0745 to 1045 - Train Minsk to Vilnius
Eat/Hostel in Vilnius (7)

Fri 14th June - Day in Vilnius
Eat/Hostel in Vilnius (8)

Sat 15th June - Travel to Riga
0630 to 1050 - Bus Vilnius to Riga
Eat/Hostel in Riga (9)

Sun 16th June - Day in Riga
Eat/Hostel in Riga (10)

Mon 17th June - Travel to Tallinn
0700 to 1125 - Bus Riga to Talinn
Eat/Hostel in Talinn (11)

Tues 18th June - Day in Tallinn
Bus to St Petersburg - 2340 to 0725

Wed 19th June - Day in St Petersburg
Eat/Hostel in St Petersburg (12)

Thu 20th June - Day in St Petersburg
Eat/Hostel in St Petersburg (13)

Fri 21st June - Day in Petersburg
Bus to Helsinki - 2215 to 0600
Eat/Hostel in Helsinki (14)

Sat 22nd June - Part day in Helsinki/travel home
Flight back to Manchester


1) Has anyone had any experience travelling on a similar route before?
2) How easy is it to get tickets for train/buses services such as these, I imagine the language barrier must make it difficult? Is even finding where these services leave from difficult and when you get to stations/bus stations, is it easy enough to find the correct services?
3) Has anyone travelled from Chisinau to Kiev recently? And where can I find info of how to get between the cities, its proved a real challenge to find any info.
4) Any tips on the cities above, any recommendations?

Cheers

Tom

 

[Golghar]

Have you thought about visas for Russia and Belarus?

 

[W-on-Sea]

I've travelled in a few of these countries (Romania and Russia near St Petersburg, but in both of those cases way back in the mid-90s - will have changed a lot since then, all three of the Baltic States, Ukraine). And I definitely rate all of Riga, Vilnius, Kiev and St Petersburg really highly as places to visit (perhaps the latter is a bit overwhelming,so still very much worth it). I've never been to Chisinau, but (unless you have a specific reason to go there) I'd be inclined to suggest going to Odessa instead - it's a really interesting, beautiful and characterful city.

Oh, but I do speak Russian and Ukrainian - which certainly makes things easier, except perhaps in Estonia, where English seems to be relatively widely, and notably well, spoken (as well as not carrying colonial overtones). Probably French would be at least as useful as English in Romania, too. I wouldn't generally have thought that the language barrier would be insurmountable, however- the station in Kiev (which is enormous) has desks that cater specifically for foreigners,where the staff *should* speak some English. Same should apply in St Petersburg, too. And probably Minsk, also, which would presumably be much more Soviet-style...

But in general people will be willing and prepared to help you - Western tourists are still a bit of a novelty in at least some of these places. Apart from finding the right bus station in Kiev (as mentioned below), the only places I've really had difficulties travelling are out in the provinces - and there people are generally even more willing to help than in the cities.

Overnight trains probably should be booked in advance where possible - sometimes it can be hard to get tickets at the last minute in Ukraine. I'm afraid I've no idea how to do that from the UK, or indeed if it is possible. But surely it must be possible by now...


I wouldn't have thought that, in general, finding the right train should be a problem -not for long-distance, main-line services, anyway (local services are perhaps a different story). In any case, once you have tickets, you can show them to someone, who can point you in the right direction (and your trains will be referred to by number, as well as destination, so even if you have difficulty with the Cyrillic Script, there is something to look out for...)

The bus station situation in Kiev (if it hasn't changed in the last few years) is a bit confusing and awkward, though (although....well, let's say Tbilisi is a lot lot lot worse in that regard). There are several different bus stations (I think as many as six), none of which are particularly central, and it be complicated to find out which one you need. But again, this would mainly concern more local/medium-distance services than ones to other very major cities. There is now a metro station next to the (misleadingly named) "Central Bus Station", which does make matters easier (previously it was a 20 minute walk to the nearest metro) - this is where most international or long-distance services leave from and arrive


The Ukrainian Railways website http://www.uz.gov.ua will give you timetables for at least some of your desired journeys (including Chisinau-Kiev)- I think you can book tickets on there too,possibly. The English interface looks pretty good (far better than it used to be), although some places might not be spelt exactly the way that you are expecting (as they are transliterated from Ukrainian): so "Kiev" is shown as "Kyiv", which is fairly standard, but "Chisinau" becomes "Kyshyneu", which isn't...
("Pas" as a suffix in the timetables, as "Kyiv-Pas" just means "passenger (station)"

As for getting from Chisinau to Kiev, it seems that most trains that take that route continue to Moscow - so probably well worth trying to book a place in advance if possible. And they seem to be painfully slow....


I presume that bit of your journey (Chisinau-Kiev) will take you through the unrecognized "Transnistrian Moldovan Republic" - where you *may* have to pay a bribe for a "visa", for all that your time spent there will be minimal. Probably looking on lonely planet forums or similar might make that clear.


I've used www.poezda.net (which I think is only available in Russian) for finding train times in the ex-USSR in the past, but it seems to be less user-friendly than it once was - so probably a Thomas Cook timetable might serve you better.



And as for drinks......in Riga be sure to try the Black Balsam (kind of herbal liquor).

There are lots of good places to drink along Khreshtatik in Kiev, and even more so (and to eat also) also Andriyevsky uzviz/spusk/descent . Ukrainian food can be really good!

I've found the guides published by www.inyourpocket.com to be quite useful for several of these cities

 

[gordonthemoron]

you won't have language problems for ticket purchases in Sofia, Bucharest, Vilnius, Riga & Tallinn. The first two have special ticket agencies for international trips in the main station, Wasteels. Most people you will come into contact with in the Baltic states speak english.

Bucharest is weird, but nice, be sure to visit the Palace of the people, the metro is quite interesting too, it appears to have been constructed as a nuclear bunker. Vilnius has a very interesting cathedral and the local beer is excellent, try it out at Alaus Namai beside the river. Riga tends to be overrun with stag parties but is still a nice place, the Pharmacy bar is worth finding. Tallinn has probably the best old town of the Baltic capitals and the Depeche Mode bar. I used coaches between Vilnius-Riga-Tallinn as the train services are farily rubbish

 

[Chapeltom]

Have you thought about visas for Russia and Belarus?

Research into those countries with regards to VISAs already done

 

[Tim B]

May I recommend you consider sea Tallinn to Helsinki - many ferry crossings each day. Then rail Helsinki to St Petes which was the most stress free entry to Russia I have ever made as all immigration and customs are done on the move on board the Allegra train.

I see you have already researched visas for Belarus and Russia. I spent 5 nights in St Petes last summer and would say that this was an absolute minimum of time to spend in this city (or indeed Russia in general), bearing in mind the sheer administrative hassle and cost of obtaining visa supports and then the visas themselves. (approx £ 120 for Brits)

It sounds like a fantastic trip. I am very envious !

 

[martinsh]

Most people you will come into contact with in the Baltic states speak english.

Even if you speak to them in the local language ! b****y annoying as I am fluent in Latvian

Tallinn has probably the best old town of the Baltic capitals and the Depeche Mode bar.

Depeche Mode very big in Latvia as well for some reason.

 

[gordonthemoron]

if you do Tallinn to Helsinki by ferry, use the Tallink service which is the fastest conventional ferry I've ever been on. 84km in 1hour 50mins

 

[Chapeltom]

May I recommend you consider sea Tallinn to Helsinki - many ferry crossings each day. Then rail Helsinki to St Petes which was the most stress free entry to Russia I have ever made as all immigration and customs are done on the move on board the Allegra train.

I see you have already researched visas for Belarus and Russia. I spent 5 nights in St Petes last summer and would say that this was an absolute minimum of time to spend in this city (or indeed Russia in general), bearing in mind the sheer administrative hassle and cost of obtaining visa supports and then the visas themselves. (approx £ 120 for Brits)

It sounds like a fantastic trip. I am very envious !

How far in advance did you start the process of getting a Visa for Russia? Our plan is at least 3 days in St Petersburg, bit tricky to plan now as I'm in the North and my mate is in London for next few weeks. Think we need to sit down and have a think about St Petersburg. We don't want to see everything there, but I don't want to miss anything and we are on a budget.


Flights out to Sofia are booked, for £75 a piece. For 20 days, would £1200 be a decent enough budget? We'll only be kipping in hostels like, includes visa, flight costs, all travel costs which I shouldn't imagine are going to be too great.

 

[TCDD]

I travelled to Chisinau in August. As well as the (quite comfortable) direct overnight train from Bucharest, there are also quite a few minibuses from Iasi (in the north east of Romania) to Chisinau, taking about three or four hours.
It appears that the trains from Chisinau to Kiev travel via Ocnita in the north of Moldovan, thus avoiding Transnistria. The only train which runs through there is the Chisinau - Odessa service.
However, a trip to Transnistria is an interesting (sort of) diversion in itself, easily done as a day trip form Moldova. There is a rail service from 'Chisinau Suburban', an easily missed station 500 m north of the main station, to the town of Bender. The train is an old Hungarian Diesel unit with wooden bench seats.
On arrival at Bender, the train stops at a funny little platform 200 m short of the station (presumably to avoid having to actually run into Transnistria) and passengers walk along the tracks into town). If there was a border check I must have missed it - which had consequences for me.
To get form Bender station to the town centre, it's necessary to get a trolleybus. You can then get another trolleybus for the ride to the 'capital', Tiraspol.

You can then either come back by rail, or by bus (but if you didn't get an entry stamp on entering Transnistria be prepared to pay a bribe at the road checkpoint - like I did!).

In Chisinau I stayed in the the Hotel Cosmos, a decent-ish concrete tower near the station. 29 Euro for a single room only non aircon. 39 euro for aircon and breakfast.

 

[gordonthemoron]

it is possible to travel from either Tallinn or Helsinki to St Petersberg by ferry without a visa, but you only get about 8 hours there, see St Peterline

 

[johnnychips]

The bus station in Vilnius is next to the train station and English was not spoken by about half of the staff. It helps if you can show a piece of paper with the destination, time and date of your proposed journey written on it; that alleviated all problems for me.

Vilnius is a superb city, and if you've got one day there I would recommend the KGB museum and technological museum (See Trip Advisor); or a day trip (by train naturally) to Trakai Castle - it's not too far but amazing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trakai_Island_Castle

It is bizarre that there is only one train a day from Lithuania to Latvia, and that's to Daugavpils, where you would have to stay overnight before going on to Riga. I expect that's why you're getting the bus.

 

[gordonthemoron]

rather than use the bus station ticket office in Vilnius, Riga or Tallinn, use the ticket offices of Lux Express or Ecolines, their staff definitely speak english and they run most of the express buses between those cities

 

[Tim B]

How far in advance did you start the process of getting a Visa for Russia?

Our plan is at least 3 days in St Petersburg, bit tricky to plan now as I'm in the North and my mate is in London for next few weeks. Think we need to sit down and have a think about St Petersburg. We don't want to see everything there, but I don't want to miss anything and we are on a budget.

Flights out to Sofia are booked, for £75 a piece. For 20 days, would £1200 be a decent enough budget? We'll only be kipping in hostels like, includes visa, flight costs, all travel costs which I shouldn't imagine are going to be too great.

We did whole process in under 2 weeks - but I delivered/collected our documents/passports in person to speed things up and to reduce charges for each way recorded mail. Russian consulate in UK outsources whole visa process to VFS Services, based near Barbican in the City. You enter all your personal info (and you'll be amazed the details they ask :roll:!) online and then submit hard copy completed forms + passports by post. You'll also need visa support from sponsoring organisation in Russia .......

3 full days is enough for a taster - but don't miss Hermitage, Kazan and St Isaacs Cathedrals and Tsarskoe Selo / Peterhof. I do think you'll find food and accomm in Russia expensive even in comparison to EU countries (if it's any consolation, Moscow would be worse !) I've already made the point about the expense of the visa / visa support.

Independent tourism in Russia can be tricky as they are not geared up for visitors who are not travelling in organised groups. Knowledge of Cyrillic alphabet helps you get around more easily. Lonely Planet Thorn Tree as a good place to ask questions, people there are friendly and very willing to share their knowledge .