what would you like to see in a Train Sim ?

[JJUK]

Me and my mate was talking about train sims and we was talking about what we would like to see in them.

i said i would like to see a train simulator but with multiplayer functions so you could see other people driving there trains. what would you like to see

 

[tubenutter]

I like a train sim with good U.K. English.

 

[LucaZone]

would it be possible for you to expand on your reasoning for thinking Multiplayer TrainSim's is worthwhile.

How exaclty would it be different in any way from single player?

 

[tubenutter]

it's interesting, because this is something i was thinking of a couple of nights ago, but having thought about it i don't think it's really viable.

The only thing a multiplayer trainsim activity can do is have two controlled trains going round at once. In a normal activity, that would mean you would pass the other player once, if you were going in the opposite direction, and even that would seem no different to you than if it was a computer.

 

[1D53]

The ability to do more than one run.

Eg: A-B then B-C then C-A, changing ends and the works.

 

[JJUK]

The only thing a multiplayer trainsim activity can do is have two controlled trains going round at once. In a normal activity, that would mean you would pass the other player once, if you were going in the opposite direction, and even that would seem no different to you than if it was a computer.

yeah but when you go on a train from say birmingham to crewe you dont just see one train do you. so you add more trains for more players and you will get to see more players driving there train and stuff. i dunno i will have a think about it abit more

 

[LucaZone]

The ability to do more than one run.
Eg: A-B then B-C then C-A, changing ends and the works.

You'll be pleased with the developments of KRS then

 

[1D53]

You'll be pleased with the developments of KRS then

I hope so!

 

[yorkie]

would it be possible for you to expand on your reasoning for thinking Multiplayer TrainSim's is worthwhile.

How exaclty would it be different in any way from single player?

There's something about multiplayer games that makes them more worthwhile, more fulfilling than single player games.

IMO nothing comes close to SimSig multiplayer, because you are working as a team, in challenging scenarios, and the simulation is very realistic, it's almost like you're in a real IECC working together.

How you can translate that into a cab driving sim, I don't know.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

on the theme of a multiplayer train sim, it would be interesting to see that sort of thing definetly, but for example it could be built around not just several drivers with their train on a line but with a signaller (i.e. like simsig) and realistic features like cab to shore etc. (a bit like teamspeak or something)
it would definetly be realistic if it all worked like the real thing but obviously virtual

 

[5872]

I want MSTS to be like Trainz , when your driving be able to move freely away from the cab it gets really annoying I think it was Free Roaming or somthing like that!

 

[Dennis]

on the theme of a multiplayer train sim, it would be interesting to see that sort of thing definetly, but for example it could be built around not just several drivers with their train on a line but with a signaller (i.e. like simsig) and realistic features like cab to shore etc. (a bit like teamspeak or something)
it would definetly be realistic if it all worked like the real thing but obviously virtual

That sim's already available, complete with realistic w#nkers around the place, a variety of weather scenarios, failures etc. etc. - called real life!

Not available at Game or other retail outlets.

 

[mbonwick]

That sim's already available, complete with realistic w#nkers around the place, a variety of weather scenarios, failures etc. etc. - called real life!

Not available at Game or other retail outlets.

I like that one!

 

[tubenutter]

Think about multiplayer trainsims where you actually drive a train (like MSTS, as opposed to Simsig). No matter how many players you have in the game, what difference will it make to each of you? OK, you can see someone else's train, but wouldnt that just look the same as a computer controlled train?

Also,

yeah but when you go on a train from say birmingham to crewe you dont just see one train do you. so you add more trains for more players and you will get to see more players driving there train and stuff. i dunno i will have a think about it abit more

The more people you add into a game, the slower the game will run (I may be wrong, but logically i think that statement's correct) and with people like me running at (on average) about 13 FPS with MSTS, that could have a very bad effect on the game with no real advantage!

The thing about being able to change into the other cab is good, though.

 

[Darandio]

The only thing that would make multiplayer more interesting is if you were stuck behind someone who wasn't as familiar with the game. Then you would be trundling along getting constantly signal checked. That would make it more interesting, if a little annoying.

 

[LucaZone]

There is still nothing that anyone has said in this thread which seperates multiplayer from single player :/

Dont get me wrong, it not trying to kill the potential to have it, but thus far everyone that has spoken in favour or wanten of multiplayer train simulation hasnt been able to convey exactly what makes it different from single player train simulation.

The only outstanding feature for such a mode is a human controlling the signals on some SimSig style view. However this is the point of contraversy, because such a powerful single position in a multiplayer game would mean its all to easy for someone to screw up the experience for everyone else. Not only that but if they do the role properly, those actually driving the trains in the 3D world will again see nothing different to their single player experience.

Only if the Signaller purposely causes issues will anything interesting happen.

So despite the call of many for next gen train sims to feature multiplayer, until someone can define how it differeciates itself from single player gameplay, there is pretty much no point any developers trying to create it. Multiplayer will need to add a whole new dimension, not duplicate one, before it ever gets into a game.

 

[Darandio]

I see what you are saying LucaZone and very much agree with you. There really aren't many (if any) pros towards a multiplayer train simulation.
Aside from the point I mentioned earlier about being stuck behind a 'newbie' which is easily done in single player mode anyway, another possible thing would be to have a group of people all with a designated train along the route and once the route is complete they could see who stuck closest to the timetable.
Then again, forget that, you could do that in single player by all driving the same route and posting the results on here.
I will never try to find anything interesting for multiplayer again, just stick to what we do now.

 

[Coxster]

I suppose it would be interesting if you had a minimum of three players - driver, signaller and someone who can control weather, TSRs, line obstructions etc at the touch of a button (like God ), therefore making life a bit harder for the driver and signaller who would then have to work closely together. For example if there are lots of drivers playing and the signaller wasn't that experienced then you could really get on his nerves keep phoning about red signals, incorrect route settings etc

Of course if you wanted a more realistic experience then you just wouldn't join a multiplayer session.

 

[LucaZone]

Looking at objectives and gameplay of other multiplayer genres

• Run / Drive / Fly anywhere you want, anytime you want
• Dynamically change your purpose and order of actions
• Compete for the same goal against other players within the same environment
• <tbc>

Multiplayer with trains

Players cannot move around freely outside the confines of the track they have been assigned to. They cannot personally dynamically change their defined path unless within a yard. Based on realisim they should not change the setup of their vehicle. No two players have the same objective, although they may hold the same actions to be taken.

 

[GeoffM]

Thanks for the SimSig comments

One real world model you could perhaps relate to is that of the flight sim world. A plethora of tools exist for MSFS, but the most powerful force is a group of users - pilots and air traffic control.

To combat the loneliness felt in multi-player simulations, these groups often have "meets" in the virtual sense - for example, they would pick a route such as Heathrow to Amsterdam and have continuous ATC throughout the route and numerous aircraft flying. Suddenly Heathrow comes to life with dozens of aircraft taxiing, taking off, landing, holding, etc.

To combat the "newbies", there are grades that must be achieved. For example, a newbie ATC wouldn't be allowed to take over Heathrow. He would need training on a smaller airport first, before moving up through the grades.

I tried to talk to Kuju about integrating SimSig into KRS but they weren't too interested. It remains to be seen how flexible and extendable it will be. But MSTS2 *might* have that kind of option, if it's modelled on MSFS-X.

Anyway, enough ramblings from me for now.

Geoff M.

 

[Tom]

SimSig integrating into KRS would certainly have worked well, as the signalling system is based on Lua it would have been reasonably easy to API it in...

 

[5872]

Looking at objectives and gameplay of other multiplayer genres

• Run / Drive / Fly anywhere you want, anytime you want
• Dynamically change your purpose and order of actions
• Compete for the same goal against other players within the same environment
• <tbc>

Multiplayer with trains

Players cannot move around freely outside the confines of the track they have been assigned to. They cannot personally dynamically change their defined path unless within a yard. Based on realisim they should not change the setup of their vehicle. No two players have the same objective, although they may hold the same actions to be taken.

I said that before FREE ROAMING!:bounce:

 

[class 313]

I would like to see Trainz and MSTS put together so you can drive different trains on the same game but keep the MSTS kind of driving as it is better than Trainz.

The idea of multiplayer is often something I have for one thought about, it could work in the style of Trainz, but you would need a powerful computer or **** in game graphics and such...

 

[LucaZone]

FREE ROAMING!

Free Roaming / Explore Mode is nothing more than you driving around the route randomly. Im not sure anyone would find it that interesting to just have multiplayer free roam. Everyone driving where ever. It would be like worms in tunnels. You see someone every so often, maybe on the wrong line, or going the wrong way. Maybe blocking a station or yard. or you all queue up to load/unload your wagons.

No prototypical behaviour would be seen or last very long.

 

[16CSVT2700]

I'd personally like to see a Train Sim on an actual games console then I don't have to worry about minimum requirements etc.

My laptop's not the best in the world and I'm not upgrading for a while yet.. (not got the money) plus a games console joypad is soooo much easier to use than a keyboard and mouse for me :thumblef:

NB: Yes I KNOW I can get joypads for computers, I'm not that moronic

 

[LucaZone]

I would think it be a total nightmare to get any kind of realistic train controls onto the limited number of buttons a joypad has :/

It be better if they bought out a keyboard for consoles. THEN games on PC would die.

 

[class 313]

I would think it be a total nightmare to get any kind of realistic train controls onto the limited number of buttons a joypad has :/

It be better if they bought out a keyboard for consoles. THEN games on PC would die.

IIRC the Dreamcast had one, and IIRC you can plug a USB Keyboard into the PS2... (dunno about xbox though)

 

[Coxster]

IIRC the Dreamcast had one, and IIRC you can plug a USB Keyboard into the PS2... (dunno about xbox though)

I certainly had a keyboard for my Dreamcast - still go it in the cupboard. Couldn't use it with games though.

As for train games on consoles, the popular Japanese game "Densha de Go" has been on Dreamcast and PS2, and is set to be released on PS3. Not sure how realistic the features are though, as the RailDriver equivilent controller for the Dreamcast version was very basic IIRC.

 

[class 313]

I certainly had a keyboard for my Dreamcast - still go it in the cupboard. Couldn't use it with games though.

I think the keyboard was for the internet on the Dreamcast...