First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[Failed Unit]

I can't think of any sleeper synergies, but the WCML franchise would be the best place to advertise the sleeper (in timetables etc), is there a "travel one way on a daytime train and back on a sleeper" ticket available?

I do remember in happier times their used to be a Scottish Executive, it was one way on the sleeper with the return any GNER train, complete with a meal ticket. No idea why it was killed off unless Scotrail and GNER couldn't agree a revenue split.

It would be nice if that ticket returned, but I suspect as well that now people prefer 2x singles.

 

[tbtc]

Oh right, how did the cross TOC jointly advertised "Club 55" sneak through the net a couple of years on the bounce? Or is that a different sort of cross-advertising? And how come First are allowed to promote the joint First Bus / First TPE reduced price bus & rail tickets in the Huddersfield area?

Maybe Stagecoach are allowed to cross-promote but First aren't?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebustocrookes/5606289975/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I do remember in happier times their used to be a Scottish Executive, it was one way on the sleeper with the return any GNER train, complete with a meal ticket. No idea why it was killed off unless Scotrail and GNER couldn't agree a revenue split.

It would be nice if that ticket returned, but I suspect as well that now people prefer 2x singles.

That sounds like a good idea - surely a lot of the potential Sleeper passengers would only need a bed in one direction (going the other way in daylight) - there are definite ways to improve promotion of the sleeper even if you can't share stock between daytime and nighttime

 

[cjmillsnun]

But it would be!

I overheard someone at work saying First would have a monopoly of transport in Scotland today. I asked them about east coast and cross country

I wonder if any synergies can be made with the sleeper? Doubtful to be honest as nothing that is used on them is used on the WCML now (unless you include pretendolino)

Well personally I'd like DOR to take over all franchises as they expire and then rename itself British Rail.

I'd also like to see Network Rail re-integrated, but an accounting mechanism kept so that EU rules are complied with.

The railway was more efficient in cash terms when it was publicly owned.

 

[Helvellyn]

Virgin Rail is 49 per cent owned by Stagecoach. It is unclear whether the partners will bid for further franchises together following the West Coast loss.

I wonder if Stagecoach would be quite happy to see Virgin Rail wound up after all this!

If there is to be a delay in signing the contract, that would prevent First taking over on 9th December, then I don't believe that Virgin should be allowed to continue operating the franchise either. Get DOR to step in, offering fixed term contracts to keep all the Virgin employees on whose contracts would expire. If First can then take over at a later date, all well and good. If the process has to start again, then let it be from a level playing field but not one where Virgin are going to play the hard-done by incumbant card whilst still operating the trains.

I note the comments from First that Virgin were more than happy with the process until they lost out. Smacks a little of the stance they've taken in aviation in the past. Everything is fine when lodging an application for a route licence, etc, but when they lose it it must be a flawed process!

 

[snail]

They said the same thing about News Internationals offer to make Sky News editorially independent if they got the go ahead to increase their share of Sky Television 'we see the offer in the press' but saying they didnt seen any problem with the Murdoch aquisition anyway, a couple of weeks later.....

So you think First have been hacking Virgin's phones?

 

[Aictos]

They have done plenty of whining though, and demanding the government pays to upgrade them to enhance the Virgin brand, at no cost to them obviously.

Totally agree here,

Funny thing is First haven't even took over and yet people are attacking them for what are doing!

Give them a chance before saying they will do because until they start you do not know for a fact how First WC are going to be.

Well said, how can you judge a company when it's not even started operations?

 

[Howardh]

Well said, how can you judge a company when it's not even started operations?

Think if Ryanair took over consider it already judged....

 

[pablo]

You don't rock the boat when there's a chance you might win. Competitive tendering is intrinsicly flawed. I've been rescuing the results for half a lifetime.

 

[WelshBluebird]

More likely they think the franchise system is botched.

But they only think that because they lost!
If they had won, they would be more than happy with the franchise system.

 

[Realfish]

I wonder if Stagecoach would be quite happy to see Virgin Rail wound up after all this!

If there is to be a delay in signing the contract, that would prevent First taking over on 9th December, then I don't believe that Virgin should be allowed to continue operating the franchise either.QUOTE]

Greening was asked, last night, what would happen. She said (with what I sensed was a hint of darkness in her voice) that contingiencies were in place.

 

[Metroland]

But they only think that because they lost!
If they had won, they would be more than happy with the franchise system.

Yes and no. I'll grant you, at least publicly, they have not complained about the details of the franchise system during this bid - but they are not allowed to.

However, they have complained and spoke out publicly when the ECML franchise failed under National Express in 2009 about the system.

 

[chris89]

Bit off topic 'ish'

Someone posted this link over on VT facebook page.

http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2012/08/...ng-west-coast-main-line-may-improve-services/

Chris

 

[NSEFAN]

Bit off topic 'ish'

Someone posted this link over on VT facebook page.

http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2012/08/2...rove-services/

I like the 319 unit in VT livery!

 

[willc789]

View from a neutral here but did anyone see the irony that Branson was being interviewed from Necker Island (at least i think thats what its called!) on the BBC site whilst staunchly standing up for the average man on the street? I think it speaks volumes about him personally, surely if he really cared about loosing the bid and the process he would be in the UK?

 

[HH]

Theres a no cross-advertising clause in the franchises, your not allowed to advertise them together. Its why Dft has also been leaning on the Tocs to withdraw group branding.

First I've heard of it. There certainly was no such clause in the draft FA for ICWC.

 

[Jeni]

if he really cared about loosing the bid and the process he would be in the UK?

With all the modern communications we have these days, there is actually little point in him being here.

 

[Lampshade]

I like the 319 unit in VT livery!

Is that not a 455? :?

 

[43167]

Is that not a 455? :?

With ex-508 middle coach.

 

[MK Tom]

Can someone spell out really clearly for me what the current state of play is? It's really difficult to cobble together from page upon page of debating and all these conflicting news stories!

 

[Rich McLean]

Not a peep has been put about on the news. I imagine we are waiting for the courts to say if they are going to hear the case out.

I would imgaine the franchise signing is delayed for now, until the courts have decided on what to do. However, if legal action challenge did not arrive ontime, then it could of already been signed and not leaked to the press.

 

[Metroland]

Virgin has lodged the legal challenge papers at the High Court (yesterday) and the Government is now seeking legal advice.

A judge now has to rule whether there is a case to answer.

Until all will be quiet as both sides are consulting lawyers. No contacts can be signed as far as I know until the judge rules, because there is a chance the Government has acted unlawfully, and the contract would be void.

Once we get a judgement, it will go from there. Should there be a case to answer it could drag on for months.

There's a bit more about judicial reviews here

http://www.publiclawproject.org.uk/downloads/WhatIsJR.pdf

 

[tbtc]

Yes and no. I'll grant you, at least publicly, they have not complained about the details of the franchise system during this bid - but they are not allowed to

Presumably under good process nobody at Virgin would have leaked the letter that Branson sent to Osbourne/ Cameron a week before the winner was announced?

 

[Wath Yard]

Not a peep has been put about on the news.

Of course there is nothing on the news. It isn't newsworthy any more. Even Branson isn't arrogant enough, or his loyal followers naive enough, to believe that spin and PR can influence this country's judiciary like it has certain politicians.

 

[HH]

For anyone who is interested this is a good guide to the Judicial Review process:

http://www.publiclawproject.org.uk/downloads/GuideToJRProc.pdf

Branson has his work cut out.

 

[caliwag]

Suggestion in this article that it could take a couple of weeks to assess whether there is a case to answer!

http://www.publicsectorexecutive.co...ff-delayed-as-virgin-launches-judicial-review

 

[WatcherZero]

This from a Mr Pernickety-Nitpicker, senior partner with Messrs Sue, Grabbitt & Run...

There is a precedent for legal challenges to government decisions on franchising. In June 2003, the then incumbent operator of the Great Eastern franchise failed to make the shortlist for the replacement Greater Anglia franchise. Lawyers were dispatched to the High Court which instructed the then Strategic Rail Authority to release the application form scores for the franchise. With this information, the incumbent said that it now understood the pre-qualification 'more clearly' and could see 'in detail' the reasoning behind SRA’s decision to exclude it from the Greater Anglia bidding. The statement continued: ‘We are clearly still disappointed that, as the best performing operator in East Anglia delivering the best value for money for the taxpayer, we have not been given an opportunity to bid. However, we have decided that it is not in our interests to proceed any further with our legal challenge and, accordingly, we have withdrawn’.

So who was this litigious incumbent?

Why our friends at First Group.

Clearly, and without prejudice, what goes around, comes around

http://railwayeye.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[Wath Yard]

All that proves is the DfT, or the SRA as was, aren't as incompetent as many people say and there is a very good chance they will have covered their backs, and made a rational decision, in this case also.

 

[Metroland]

Tiny bit more detail:

The Department for Transport (DfT) seemed to know it would be on the receiving end of a legal challenge when it awarded the West Coast Main Line contract to First Group, a deal that gifted roles to Ashurst, Burges Salmon, Eversheds and Herbert Smith.

Monckton Chambers’ Michael Bowsher QC was on standby last week awaiting instruction from the DfT, which itself was awaiting notification of any action from Virgin Trains. According to sources close to the case Virgin had wanted to secure some heavyweight silks to challenge the ruling.

Which is exactly what it has done, snapping up Blackstone Chambers’ Michael Beloff QC, a judicial review specialist, and public law barrister Nigel Giffin QC of 11KBW. To have not one but two silks on such a high-profile dispute sends a message of intent to the Government.

Not that Bowsher will be a knock over should the case make it to court. Earlier this year he secured a victory for Eurostar, which was being challenged in the courts over its decision to hand a fleet-building contract to Siemens rather than Alstom Transport.

Nice to see all that, er, training being put to good use.

http://www.thelawyer.com/names-trains-and-first-class-deals/1014038.article

 

[RPI]

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37539 I see this has appeared on facebook.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

http://railwayeye.blogspot.co.uk/

And would I be right in saying that FirstGroup has not failed to win a franchise it has bid for since then (four in a row - ICWC would be the fifth)?
Meanwhile the then GA winner (NX) lost all its subsequent bids except EC which it handed back.