Linking FGW with the WCML

[SwindonPkwy]

Is there a mechanism for First Group to propose a link between their GWML and WCML franchises? Paddington to Euston is not the easiest of transfers.
Could Reading to Watford via the NLL work and what would it take to make the paths available?
Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere.

 

[David10]

Paddington to Euston is only 5 stops on the Underground, albeit with a 200 metre walk from Euston Square. With pathing on the GWML, North London & Watford lines already at a premium would be hard to diagram.

 

[Whistler40145]

I agree, Euston to Paddington would be better by Tube than trundling around the NLL.

 

[jimm]

Who would use this link? Everywhere from Birmingham/Coventry northwards can access the GW area at Reading or Cheltenham/Bristol using XC services and from 2017 will that will apply down to Milton Keynes as well via the reopened line to Oxford.

Plans from 2007 to redevelop Euston station certainly included a new pedestrian tunnel direct to Euston Square Underground, but I'm not sure if this has survived into the latest version.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is there a mechanism for First Group to propose a link between their GWML and WCML franchises? Paddington to Euston is not the easiest of transfers.
Could Reading to Watford via the NLL work and what would it take to make the paths available?
Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere.

Those fine fellows Stephenson and Brunel planned this in the 1830s with the GW initially intended to reach Euston via Kensal Green, but the L&B and GW decided on different termini.

You can already reach Euston from the GW at Acton Main Line via Acton Wells Jn and Willesden West London Jn.
Holyhead HSTs used this route from the depot at Old Oak, but you have to cross the WCML fast lines on the flat using a single lead.
Virgin also use this route with Voyagers when they divert via the Chiltern route, Greenford and Ealing Broadway.
You can also reach the WCML northbound slow lines (the ones used by Southern trains from the WLL) by branching north at Acton Wells Jn and then east at Acton Canal Wharf Jn, but the last bit is only a single line connection.

These links are not electrified at present, but the recent HLOS requires NR to wire the gaps as part of the GW scheme.
This means you could conceivably work GW or LM EMUs between Euston and Reading/Heathrow or Watford Jn and Reading/Heathrow.
But finding paths would be a big problem.

 

[SwindonPkwy]

For me it was the issue of pushchair and suitcases between Paddington and Euston. I guess we we can't have it all.
Roll on HS2 and Old Oak Common. Maybe by then my daughter will be pushing me in a wheelchair!!

 

[Whistler40145]

I wish LUL would build an underground walkway between Euston & Euston Square or in the future, close Euston Square and build a new bit of line so Euston can be served by the Circle, District, Hammersmith & City & Metropolitan lines.

 

[route:oxford]

Is there a mechanism for First Group to propose a link between their GWML and WCML franchises? Paddington to Euston is not the easiest of transfers.
Could Reading to Watford via the NLL work and what would it take to make the paths available?
Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere.

It wouldn't be a bad idea for the GWML & WCML to be operated by a single operator in tandem.

Particularily if it meant that WCML services between Edinburgh and Birmingham New Street were extended to Heathrow utilising the proposed new access route.

De minimis a "Javelin" operated service shuttling between Heathrow, Reading, Oxford & Milton Keynes.

 

[John55]

I wish LUL would build an underground walkway between Euston & Euston Square or in the future, close Euston Square and build a new bit of line so Euston can be served by the Circle, District, Hammersmith & City & Metropolitan lines.

When Euston is redeveloped there will no doubt be a major improvement in the interchanges so that the Euston Square to Euston walk becomes 500 yards rather than 240 yards. Just like the improvement to the interchanges at Kings Cross/St Pancras.

 

[SwindonPkwy]

When Euston is redeveloped there will no doubt be a major improvement in the interchanges so that the Euston Square to Euston walk becomes 500 yards rather than 240 yards. Just like the improvement to the interchanges at Kings Cross/St Pancras.

Yes, I've done that one with a pushchair and suitcases as well. Why DO I choose to travel by train?

 

[lancastrian]

Those fine fellows Stephenson and Brunel planned this in the 1830s with the GW initially intended to reach Euston via Kensal Green, but the L&B and GW decided on different termini.

You can already reach Euston from the GW at Acton Main Line via Acton Wells Jn and Willesden West London Jn.
Holyhead HSTs used this route from the depot at Old Oak, but you have to cross the WCML fast lines on the flat using a single lead.
Virgin also use this route with Voyagers when they divert via the Chiltern route, Greenford and Ealing Broadway.
You can also reach the WCML northbound slow lines (the ones used by Southern trains from the WLL) by branching north at Acton Wells Jn and then east at Acton Canal Wharf Jn, but the last bit is only a single line connection.

These links are not electrified at present, but the recent HLOS requires NR to wire the gaps as part of the GW scheme.
This means you could conceivably work GW or LM EMUs between Euston and Reading/Heathrow or Watford Jn and Reading/Heathrow.
But finding paths would be a big problem.

The main reason for the London & Birmingham and the Great Western to have separate Terminals was Brunel's choice of the Broad Gauge for the Great Western.

 

[Clip]

Yes, I've done that one with a pushchair and suitcases as well. Why DO I choose to travel by train?

If its that much bother could you not just get the bus instead?

 

[Wath Yard]

Is there a mechanism for First Group to propose a link between their GWML and WCML franchises? Paddington to Euston is not the easiest of transfers.
Could Reading to Watford via the NLL work and what would it take to make the paths available?

No there isn't and no it wouldn't. Why do you think people from the north west would prefer to end up in Reading rather than London?

The DfT specify franchises and their boundaries and the TOC just runs the service. The FGW franchise finishes next summer and First don't take over ICWC until December. Not long to renegotiate, plan and implement a merged franchise, and how long to demerge it if First don't retain Great Western?

 

[SwindonPkwy]

Why do you think people from the north west would prefer to end up in Reading rather than London?

I don't. Perhaps people travelling between Scotland and the South West would like to do so without changing in London and without spending 7 or 8 hours on a XC Voyager.

Not long to renegotiate, plan and implement a merged franchise, and how long to demerge it if First don't retain Great Western?

By "link" I was suggesting a few paths between Reading and Watford to help the feed between the two franchises. I did not use the word merge or merger.

 

[bnm]

By "link" I was suggesting a few paths between Reading and Watford to help the feed between the two franchises. I did not use the word merge or merger.

Why does their have to be 'feed' between the two franchises? There isn't one between FGW and TPE, TPE and FCC, Scotrail and FGW etc. Any more than there is a feed between the Stagecoach franchises of SWT and EMT.

 

[Wath Yard]

I don't. Perhaps people travelling between Scotland and the South West would like to do so without changing in London and without spending 7 or 8 hours on a XC Voyager.

Perhaps they would but so what? They already have a rail link. It doesn't sound like a very good use of resources to me, for the handful of people that might want to travel from Scotland to the south west.

By "link" I was suggesting a few paths between Reading and Watford to help the feed between the two franchises. I did not use the word merge or merger.

That is a merger. Franchises are distinct entities and any blurring of the boundaries would cause many serious problems.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There is a genuine need for better connections between WCML stations and Heathrow/Thames Valley. It figures in RUS documents and in SE strategic planning.
It is behind the idea for Crossrail Paddington terminators to connect into the WCML slow lines to MKC, via an Old Oak Common station.
For longer distances the answer is HS2.

 

[Tiny Tim]

As LNW-GW JOINT says, the original plan was for the Great Western and the London & Birmingham to share Euston, but the companies failed to reach agreement. The government of the day had decreed that railway termini should not encroach into central London, an early example of the government 'interfering' in railway affairs. It's a pity that the interference didn't extend to compelling the companies to share Euston. The history of our railways is riddled with incidents like this: Successive governments, right down to the present day, have claimed that they don't interfere with railway business, then doing exactly that, usually badly! Understandable concerns about safety in Victorian times soon extended to governments setting pay, working hours, freight charges and ticket prices. Sadly, governments failed to involve themselves positively in planning the rail network, perhaps the most appropriate place for them to wield strategic control.

 

[mr_jrt]

The main reason for the London & Birmingham and the Great Western to have separate Terminals was Brunel's choice of the Broad Gauge for the Great Western.

Still, at least it gave the benefit of the approaches to Euston being built as 4-track from the get go though. I was of the impression that the western pair of lines was actually laid with for the Great Western...though never used by them.

 

[brianthegiant]

When Euston is redeveloped there will no doubt be a major improvement in the interchanges so that the Euston Square to Euston walk becomes 500 yards rather than 240 yards. Just like the improvement to the interchanges at Kings Cross/St Pancras.

Indeed integrating Euston Square with Euston tube stations is included in HS2 documents somewhere, pretty much essential to disperse the increased passenger numbers coming through Euston.