Sheffield Midland - Lincoln Line ( Sundays )

[sheff'd victoria]

I am at present in a battle with Northern Rail & Network Rail over the closure of the " Lincoln Line " on a Sunday until 1330pm

Network Rail kindly inform me that they have to close the line for repairs as the line is open 24/7, erm.... hang on but im sure their are other lines up and down the uk that are open 24/7 but they are not closed down

This means that the first " Passenger " service from Sheffield Midland to Lincoln is around 1340pm !

South Yorkshire PTE have been screaming out for a early Sunday service for years, this has fallen on deaf ears, Northern Rail, who most of the time live on a cloud when it comes to the Lincoln Line can not even be bothered to set up a bus replacement service before 1340pm even those passgengers would use it.

I would like to know is the Lincoln Line a one off where Network Rail " Shut " the whole lot down from Saturday night till 1330pm Sunday or are their other lines out there ?

 

[Yew]

I suppose it's a unique case, as the robin hood line doesn't run to Worksop on Sunday's, reducing patronage, and meaning the whole line can be closed.

By the way, what engineering works are these? Tamping? General maintenance? Speed upgrades?

 

[trentside]

No, it's not on its own.

The whole service into and out of Lincoln doesn't start up properly on Sundays until 1500, when the first service to Nottingham departs (there are two earlier shuttles to Newark). There is then a four hour gap in the Nottingham services until 1800, from when they run hourly. In the winter, there is no service on the Grimsby line and no service all year round on the Joint to Peterborough or Doncaster. So it's not just the Sheffield services - it's all of Lincoln's routes which are run like this on Sundays.

 

[gordonthemoron]

and there are others, Whitehaven to Barrow for instance

 

[The Planner]

Lots of lines have these engineering restrictions on them. For example, in the Dec 12 timetable the Marston Vale line is blocked 2300 Sat to 0300 Monday.

 

[Railcar B]

For example, in the Dec 12 timetable the Marston Vale line is blocked 2300 Sat to 0300 Monday.

The Marston Vale line has never had a Sunday service. This appears to be a legacy from the time when the Oxford-Cambridge line was fully open; it never had a Sunday service either.

 

[The Planner]

Did it never have a Sunday service because no one wanted to run one or because of "planned" engineering blockages ?. If LM wanted to run one then I'd fully expect them to challenge the blocks.

 

[tbtc]

The simple answer is that there's only one shift at the relevant signal box(es?) on a Sunday, hence the limited operating hours on the Lincoln line.

Its not great, and the service does feel like a bit of a "limb" compared to other Northern services, but it would require quite a big change in operations to get extra operating hours out of it.

 

[Railcar B]

Did it never have a Sunday service because no one wanted to run one or because of "planned" engineering blockages ?. If LM wanted to run one then I'd fully expect them to challenge the blocks.

Almost certainly because nobody wanted to run a Sunday service. At the time I used to regularly use the Bletchley-Cambridge section in the early 60s, the Oxford-Cambridge line was split between the Western, LM, and Eastern regions of BR, which must have been an administrative nightmare, and undoubtedly worse than when the LMS ran the whole line (though I don't remember back that far!)

I'm open to correction on this, but I think it was split Oxford-Bicester(WR),Bicester-Bedford(LMR), and Bedford-Cambridge(ER). In the early 60s there were only 3 through trains a day each way between Oxford and Cambridge; the rest of the service was segmented Oxford-Bletchley, Bletchley-Cambridge, and Bletchley-Bedford, the Marston Vale section being the busiest. Connections with the WCML and ECML at Bletchley and Sandy were poor to say the least. At Bedford you had to change stations for the MML!

Since the closure of the O-C line, the surviving Marston Vale section continued on a Mon-Sat only basis. Since privatisation I suspect the franchise only requires a Mon-Sat service to be provided, so I don't think engineering requirements enter the equation at all!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

My 1959 LMR timetable shows two Sunday trains each way Bletchley-Oxford and Bletchley-Cambridge.
Both trains connected eastbound with about an hour to wait at Bletchley, but only one connection worked westbound
There was a late third train Bletchley-Bedford and return.

Won't the imminent Joint Line resignalling change all this in Lincolnshire?
With everything run from Lincoln, there will be no limitations on signal box hours.
That doesn't get you to Sheffield, but it does change the cost equation.
It also means the line will be open for freight longer anyway, as part of the ECML capacity upgrade.

 

[Tomnick]

Won't the imminent Joint Line resignalling change all this in Lincolnshire?
With everything run from Lincoln, there will be no limitations on signal box hours.
That doesn't get you to Sheffield, but it does change the cost equation.
It also means the line will be open for freight longer anyway, as part of the ECML capacity upgrade.

I don't know exactly how far the resignalling extends, but ROTP shows Lincoln - Gainsborough (so Lincoln SCC, Saxilby, Stow Park and presumably Trent Jn) as open 1045 - 2200. West of there (Thrumpton, Worksop, Kiveton, Woodhouse and Woodburn) isn't shown as open throughout until 1400 - and I doubt the 'Joint' resignalling will affect these. West Burton is, incidentally, shown as switched out until 1800 on Sunday. I'm not entirely convinced though - there's a suggestion that Mill Green, Gosberton, Blotoft and Sleaford South can be switched out, and Gainsborough Lea Road (or at least the burnt remains) can, and does, switch in midweek!

 

[Robsignals]

The simple answer is that there's only one shift at the relevant signal box(es?) on a Sunday, hence the limited operating hours on the Lincoln line.

Its not great, and the service does feel like a bit of a "limb" compared to other Northern services, but it would require quite a big change in operations to get extra operating hours out of it.

So are NR saying it's closed for engineering - which would probably need the boxes open - when really they've made a business decision that costs would exceed earnings from the few trains likely to run?

 

[NorthOxford]

It is a daft situation. I used to use the Retford to Sheffield section quite a lot and I'm sure there used to be a slightly earlier train from Worksop?

Surely Northern Rail could fund a couple of coaches leaving at 11am and 1pm and running to Sheffield/Meadowhall?

 

[Failed Unit]

The simple answer is that there's only one shift at the relevant signal box(es?) on a Sunday, hence the limited operating hours on the Lincoln line.

Its not great, and the service does feel like a bit of a "limb" compared to other Northern services, but it would require quite a big change in operations to get extra operating hours out of it.

I guess it would be extremely expensive to do it but it would be good to see a "Lincolnshire" signal box, I think Lincoln - Nottingham has something like 13 signal boxes (although could be down to 10 with the closure of High Street, West Holmes, and High Street)

 

[Tomnick]

I guess it would be extremely expensive to do it but it would be good to see a "Lincolnshire" signal box, I think Lincoln - Nottingham has something like 13 signal boxes (although could be down to 10 with the closure of High Street, West Holmes, and High Street)

Not far off - Trent PSB, Netherfield Jn, Lowdham, Fiskerton Jn, Staythorpe, Newark Castle, Doncaster PSB, Swinderby, Lincoln SCC. Three or four manned crossings on top of those. I'm not sure reducing that number would be the answer to all the problems though, if Network Rail is reluctant to give up the standard possession opportunities.

 

[Rich_D3167]

I guess it would be extremely expensive to do it but it would be good to see a "Lincolnshire" signal box, I think Lincoln - Nottingham has something like 13 signal boxes (although could be down to 10 with the closure of High Street, West Holmes, and High Street)

Pelham Street, High Street, East Holmes & West Holmes have been shut for over 4 years now. In fact, West Holmes no longer exists! All controlled from Lincoln SCC now (located where West Holmes was). High Street & East Holmes have been retained due to being Grade 2 listed buildings, but are not in use (they can be used for the CCTV crossings to be placed on Local Control in the event of failures).

In regards to the Joint Line upgrade, I believe Saxilby & Stow Park 'boxes will be early casualties to be closed, but Gainsborough Trent Junction will be retained (the current only TCB section is towards Worksop, all AB to Beckingham, Gainsborough Central & Stow Park, still). I don't know how much longer it will be retained, but it will certainly be longer than others.

 

[ert47]

I thought the Lincoln - Sheffield line was always like that on Sundays?

A few years back, when I was at Uni in Lincoln, there was an event going on at Meadowhall on the Sunday and the first train that the NR website would show would leave Lincoln after 1 and not get to Sheffield until some time after 3 - when most shops were closing.

The only way to get to Meadowhall earlier was to take a train to Newark, up to Doncaster and then change again for a train to Sheffield/Meadowhall. Im not even sure the direct Lincoln-Sheffield return ticket is even valid on such a routing, but its the only way you can make it from Lincoln to Sheffield before the shops close on a Sunday