I agree. Friendliness is the worst thing imaginable. Much better to have one bite your leg off - at least you know where you stand (or stood)
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Should any dog be allowed on any train?
- Thread starter northwichcat
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I agree. Friendliness is the worst thing imaginable. Much better to have one bite your leg off - at least you know where you stand (or stood)
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Perhaps children should also be banned from trains, on one busy intercity journey a toddler was sharing my table seat with 2 other responsible adults who allowed him to stand/sit on the table. I was very glad I had my ipod with me!
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WestCoast
Established Member
Don't generalise, there are good and bad owners. My dog is treated as a dog. She's on the smaller side (the breed doesn't shed many hairs and she's fully house trained) and fits under my legs lying down at an airline seat - doesn't bother anyone although she has entertained a few kids before.
She's actually much less hassle to travel with than my 4 year old nephew, who is great but on the move very restless and noisy ...
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You don't treat them like a human yet you're concerned they have a window. Come on, that's madness. You'll be leaving them with a phone next so you can talk to it.
And what about the poop that sticks to their hairs? It may do it's business in a field but the 'cleaning' gets done (not everytime I admit) when it drags its backside along the carriage carpet. Lovely!!
And on trains that don't have a guards area? Or do you propose putting them in the back cab (I'm sure that'll be popular with staff!)?
YorkshireBear
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Sorry, what animal on the planet is happy with a dark confined space where they can hear noises they dont understand with nothing to comfort them or calm them!!!!! I dont want them to have a window to look out of. You have never had a dog clearly so i wouldnt expect you to understand. It is cruel to do that to an animal.
And i have looked after a german shepherd for 4 years since puppy, not once has she ever had poo sticking to her fur, not once. They have evolved so that this does not happen.
But they're all called 'Dogs'. A 'general' term. It's only you owners that give them silly names to give them an identity.
Bothers me. They smell. You can always smell where a dogs been. What if I have to sit in your seat after you've left.
You can't put kids in cage. You can't leave kids in a guards van. Kids don't bite (you know what I mean). Yes, some kids can be a pain. Mine are generally well behaved but always, probably not !!
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Why's the rear cab out of bounds yet the passenger compartment is ok?
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Agree with the dark confined space. But most areas do offer light. And if they don't, or there is no area, they should still be in a 'cage'. A 'cage' with space to move, a drink, and light. Plenty of people do this.
You'd never consider it on an airplane. Why are trains so different?
YorkshireBear
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So whats your opinion on trains being named then? surely thats even more silly as they dont have feelings or are they alive?
And why are they silly names, ive seen dogs called Lee, James, Dave, Rachel what is wrong with that? are these stupid names?
I would never let a dog sit on a seat.
And then you would complain that they take up too much room that passenegers could stand in!!!! How are you supposed to fit a cage big enough for a dog to stand up walk around drink and eat in!!! It would be bigger than any suitcase. Whereas a dog can in most cases curl up out of the way and take up barely half a persons standing space.
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You could ask it the other way around, if they are allowed on trains why cant they go on planes?
A plane is very different is the answer, very very different. Like comparing a mosquito to a great white shark.
I didn't say it was out of bounds, I said that the staff probably wouldn't appreciate having their work space taken up with a dog cage. Further bearing in mind that the back cab of many units is a rather small space I doubt you'd be able to fit a cage in it for a dog much bigger than a terrier, especially if it's supposed to be as big as you suggest. Also the back cab isn't a storage space it's a working environment, I'm not sure it's the appropriate place to be putting caged animals.
A dog is as well behaved as its owner ie trained ,considerate to other people ,if these criteria are observed then theres not a problem.People on trains are more trouble, inconsiderate, rude, violent,as a freind of mine who used to be a TTI can testify. If a ticket has been purchased there is not a problem with dogs they have traveled on trains since they started and will go on doing so ,no problem.
WestCoast
Established Member
OK, so you don't like dogs. I wasn't overly fond of them as a child actually, but dogs do an awful lot for the human race. They can be great companions as well and the human race names many things that aren't fellow human beings. As above, if you can name a train, why not a dog?
Name me an animal apart from a dog that:
-actively assist people 24/7 with disabilities changing their lives (including those with visual and hearing impairments, as well those who cannot walk). Dogs have alerted many disabled people to emergencies as well performing day-to-day tasks such as e.g. moving a washing basket about.
-act as companions to children and adults with mental illnesses - developing their social skills and giving people a sense of purpose.
-work with law enforcement agencies such as the police and customs to detect many different illegal substances quickly and efficiently (drugs, bombs e.t.c).
-assist in apprehending people that are breaking the law or displaying overly rowdy behaviour. Watch any of the police shows and you'll see.
-help the farming industry in ensuring that cattle are controlled and don't escape, this puts food on our tables!
I could go on. None of the above would function as well without their canine helpers and that's why I reckon dogs are not just "any old animal".
Smaller dogs (and cats e.t.c) are permitted in the cabin on many airlines operating services within mainland Europe and the US. It's mainly customs regulations that stops this practice in/out of the UK.
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Think you will find most owners treat them as part of the family. Clearly you do not like dogs or own one so couldn't possibly understand the kind of bond they bring.
What trains that currently operate on the network have dedicated guard vans/areas these days except from intercity DVTs and HSTs?
As others have said, I seriously doubt there would be enough space in the rear cab of any multiple unit to store a medium to large sized dog.
The bad smell argument doesn't work either, are you going to ban passengers with bad BO too?
As others have said, I seriously doubt there would be enough space in the rear cab of any multiple unit to store a medium to large sized dog.
The bad smell argument doesn't work either, are you going to ban passengers with bad BO too?
YorkshireBear
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in addition to that excellent post by WestCoast.
They can smell cancer, and have often alerted people, especially skin and breat cancer.
Are loyal beyond all doubt, will often stick by an owners dead body for weeks on end protecting it.
Ruswarp the dog was a loyal companion to one of the main members of the group who saved the settle to carlisle. He died while hill climbing during january. They found the body in april with dog still by his side protecting him. He also put his paw print on the petition to save the line.
I know there not human, but for a lot of people, the are very close.
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Or ban people who have been to work? Or ban people who smoke? (some people dont like that smell either)
Im glad its not just me who finds his argument ridiculous.
They can smell cancer, and have often alerted people, especially skin and breat cancer.
Are loyal beyond all doubt, will often stick by an owners dead body for weeks on end protecting it.
Ruswarp the dog was a loyal companion to one of the main members of the group who saved the settle to carlisle. He died while hill climbing during january. They found the body in april with dog still by his side protecting him. He also put his paw print on the petition to save the line.
I know there not human, but for a lot of people, the are very close.
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Or ban people who have been to work? Or ban people who smoke? (some people dont like that smell either)
Im glad its not just me who finds his argument ridiculous.
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camperdown9
Member
Hi
I have a 4 year old lurcher, who is a rescue dog. He spent the first 18 months of his life with people who didn't really take care of him or provide any training. He also had little to no contact with other dogs or people.
Shortly after we first got him, he bit a small dog that ran at him barking. The other owner was not very happy even though my dog was on a lead and their dog wasn't and ran at us.
He is now wears a muzzle when out in public and we have spend around £800 on training. (£500 to a guy who's training did nothing for the dog and about £300 to a guy who was worth every penny) He is better that he once was but he is scarred.
I have been told by dog trainers, mainly ex-police dog handlers that when they are out walking their own dog and the see another dog they will cross the road because you just don't know.
I love my dog to bits, but would I take him on a train where there might be children who don't understand that he is scared of them. Or other dogs that don't know how to behave. I would have to say no.
A few months ago there was a case in Canada where a guy was walking his dog and a lady he did not know came up to him and the dog to stroke the dog. The dog was scared and bit her and she took him to court and the dog was put down. To be fair "my view" he should of had a muzzle on the dog but she also shouldn't of went up to a dog she didn't know. So the outcome in that case wasn't good for anyone.
You can never be 100% sure what a dog is going to do in a strange environment so why take the risk.
Alex
I have a 4 year old lurcher, who is a rescue dog. He spent the first 18 months of his life with people who didn't really take care of him or provide any training. He also had little to no contact with other dogs or people.
Shortly after we first got him, he bit a small dog that ran at him barking. The other owner was not very happy even though my dog was on a lead and their dog wasn't and ran at us.
He is now wears a muzzle when out in public and we have spend around £800 on training. (£500 to a guy who's training did nothing for the dog and about £300 to a guy who was worth every penny) He is better that he once was but he is scarred.
I have been told by dog trainers, mainly ex-police dog handlers that when they are out walking their own dog and the see another dog they will cross the road because you just don't know.
I love my dog to bits, but would I take him on a train where there might be children who don't understand that he is scared of them. Or other dogs that don't know how to behave. I would have to say no.
A few months ago there was a case in Canada where a guy was walking his dog and a lady he did not know came up to him and the dog to stroke the dog. The dog was scared and bit her and she took him to court and the dog was put down. To be fair "my view" he should of had a muzzle on the dog but she also shouldn't of went up to a dog she didn't know. So the outcome in that case wasn't good for anyone.
You can never be 100% sure what a dog is going to do in a strange environment so why take the risk.
Alex
ralphchadkirk
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Which is often a double-edged sword.
YorkshireBear
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I cant decide what you mean by that, there are several options?
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
No, they regularly attack ambulance and medical staff who they see as harming their owner, despite it being for the owner's good.
It just wouldn't be practical to have dogs in rear cabs; what happens if a service has to reverse as part of it's route and the driver has to change ends, or if there is more than one dog on board.
I'd feel sorry for any large dog forced in to the small cab of a 153.
I'd feel sorry for any large dog forced in to the small cab of a 153.
YorkshireBear
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Ah that was one of the ways i took it. Yes that is an unfortunate consequence. thankfully one which doesn't occur too often, relatives and friends who the dog knows are usually first to discover a dead body like this which can help keep the dog a lot calmer (it did in my aunties case). But you can understand why they do it, it isn't because the are vicious.
And in my experience I've never come across a dog on a train that's showing any of the behaviour you've outlined.
Someone had to...
Hang on, I think we've just found the actual reason for the existence of 153s.
Ha! do we really! You need to meet some of those we get on trains then. I think you'll find that far more death and injury is caused to humans by their fellow humans than ever by dogs
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Quite and that is in 40 years railway service, I am obviously going around with my eyes shut
I've been thinking about this and I have to say I don't think I'd be opposed to insisting that if the dog isn't in a cage that it is at least muzzled (though I think putting a muzzle on my dog would probably cause him more distress than being on the train). Not everyone likes dogs and some people are, of course, scared of them. Muzzling seems a reasonable compromise in that it allows the dog to travel on the train yet also deals with the valid concerns of other users.
Certainly I think that a blanket ban on dogs on trains is an overreaction to what seems to be a very small problem and that being said to be honest I don't think there is a problem the with present arrangements anyway!
Certainly I think that a blanket ban on dogs on trains is an overreaction to what seems to be a very small problem and that being said to be honest I don't think there is a problem the with present arrangements anyway!
You sound like a pompous unsociable sod i would rather be around a dog on a train than a lot of humans including the likes of miserable gits like you if you didn't like it you should have sodded off to another part of the train.
They were fare paying passengers and there is nothing in the rulebook about their dog if you had whinged to the guard he would have told you the same as i have.
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