First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[PR1Berske]

Dunno. All it says is 'free WiFi access for all customers'.

"Between the hours of 8am and 9am on every other Tuesday........."

 

[HH]

So West Coast will sort the stinking toilets out

Interesting, if true. As I understand it the issue is that the CET tanks are positioned over the motors, and thus heat up. Sorting that is not a simple job.
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I could make similar comparisons between First and Stagecoach in Aberdeen, although that would not be entirely fair, since they serve different markets. However, First's 'optimistic' service frequency and their somewhat awkward fares do not help very much.

However, it isn't entirely relevant, since I would expect an operation somewhat closer to FGW's main line section, and that has very little to do with First Bus.

Apart from a very few people at the very top, FirstBus share nothing in common with First Rail. In my opinion to the detriment of the buses, as from my experience the general quality of rail managers is far higher than that in bus. Also, in my opinion, that First have not used rail expertise in their bus division is stupid.

 

[F Great Eastern]

There are a few down the years who have worked in both divisions, most noteably Dave Kaye who was MD of FNW for a while before going to FGE for the last few years of the franchise after Bob Breakwell stepped back a bit. Before and after his stints in UK rail he worked at a high level in the bus side.

 

[David10]

Also, in my opinion, that First have not used rail expertise in their bus division is stupid.

Giles Fearnley First's Managing Director UK bus was formerly Chairman of Grand Central and MD of Prism Rail http://www.firstgroup.com/latest_news/?id=006841

 

[jon0844]

The bus operations must be quite a bit harder to manage, with a mix of 'rolling stock', a mix of drivers (if Hatfield or even London is anything to go by, there are plenty of dodgy drivers on buses) and even the fact that there might be genuine competition that doesn't exist on many rail franchises. Oh, and rising fuel costs.

Throw in cuts for subsidised routes all over and I'd probably not want to work for a bus company.

 

[sprinterguy]

Sorry, I have to share this:



Right, the Scottish company with an American MD you mean. Isn't said American MD also considered one of LUL's best ever managers?

That's my daily visiting done there, I'll return tomorrow when my blood pressure has returned to normal.

Facebook has been a favourite sounding board for the uninformed and misinformed for some time now in any topic, so I wouldn’t take it too personally.

The general public who of course inhabit the greater part of Facebook cannot be expected to know or to have any interest in how the rail industry and rail franchising works, but some of the comments that have been posted on the Virgin Trains Facebook page are notably lacking any sort of factual content at all. One commenter does not think that 100,000 individuals will have travelled with Virgin Trains, despite them recording 28 million passenger journeys annually: Obviously a lot of people will be making repeat journeys within a year, but that figure still allows for 100,000 people to make 280 journeys a year with Virgin.

 

[Aictos]

Regarding that poster, here's Virgin's view:

We totally condemn this unacceptable activity which is not part of anything we are officially doing at Virgin Trains.

 

[williamn]

30,000 signatories of the petition now.

 

[F Great Eastern]

We totally condemn this unacceptable activity which is not part of anything we are officially doing at Virgin Trains.

Where have they said that? I can't seem to find anything?

 

[All Line Rover]

Three emails I've received from Virgin now asking me to sign that petition. This is a complete joke. :roll:

 

[David10]

Even if Virgin get 100,000 signatures apparently the epetition could, rather than will, be debated in the House of Commons http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/how-it-works

If none of the bidders seek a judicial review by next Monday the DfT would be free to enter into a contract with First before the House of Commons next sit on 3rd September, potentially making the epetition irrelevant.

The longer this public sulking goes on the sillier Virgin and Branson look, time to accept the decision and move on.

 

[SkinnyDave]

I have mixed feelings about this as I feel its sad to see Virgin go but at same time im really interested to see how First do with this..
TPE do a great job with what they have currently and I think First will do well on WC. Can someome post the Link to Firsts FAQs on WC?

 

[broadgage]

The frequent publishing of pictures of railway accidents, no matter who the TOC may be, also gives the impression that rail is a dangerous mode of transport when in fact it is one of the safest, and much safer than driving which is the main alternative.

Try asking MS average "how many people have died in railway accidents in the last year" most IME will answer "dozens" or even "hundreds"

Railway accidents are, very properly enquired into at length, especialy if fatal.
This attracts a lot of public attention, whereas road accidents are forgotten about in a day or two except by those directly invloved.

 

[Wath Yard]

The e-petition is irrelevant anyway. Four companies spent 3 months and several million pounds preparing bids. A specialist team in the DfT then spent 3 months evaluating the bids. Nobody outside of these groups is aware of all the facts, and the majority of the people who have signed the petition are probably aware of none of them.

The DfT will have known prior to awarding the franchise there would be a storm, seeing as Branson had already kicked up a fuss after seeing the original Guardian article, though they probably will have been taken by surprised by how long it has lasted. However, it is summer and the silly season.

If Government contracts start getting awarded based on Facebook and Twitter campaigns then I'm emigrating.

 

[Hazlehead]

The e-petition is irrelevant anyway. Four companies spent 3 months and several million pounds preparing bids. A specialist team in the DfT then spent 3 months evaluating the bids. Nobody outside of these groups is aware of all the facts, and the majority of the people who have signed the petition are probably aware of none of them.

The DfT will have known prior to awarding the franchise there would be a storm, seeing as Branson had already kicked up a fuss after seeing the original Guardian article, though they probably will have been taken by surprised by how long it has lasted. However, it is summer and the silly season.

If Government contracts start getting awarded based on Facebook and Twitter campaigns then I'm emigrating.

Totally agree sir!

 

[Oliver]

Giles Fearnley First's Managing Director UK bus was formerly Chairman of Grand Central and MD of Prism Rail http://www.firstgroup.com/latest_news/?id=006841

After selling Grand Central I thought he might hang up his bike clips and enjoy the view. I remember him from Prism days. He is a good egg; he did that "Back to the Shop Floor" TV show where he worked on the barrier at Cambridge station for a week. He also invented PlusBus.

 

[junglejames]

Are we talking of first class r standard though? I find that first is like slouching in an armchair, whereas standard promoted a reasonably good posture. With a reasonable level of padding. I found both comfortable, but think the standard class versions would benefit from a headrest, so you can rest your head, and reduce carriage visibility slightly, but not so much to feel claustrophobic

Those headrests certain Virgin Mk2s had! They were bliss!

 

[williamn]

40,000 now.

Obviously most people don't know the ins and outs of what's involved, but I think its pretty rare to get that many people motivated to sign something about a TOC!

 

[F Great Eastern]

The trouble is if this does get overturned it means it sets a precedent for every franchisee who loses the franchise to a higher bid to simply claim the others overbid whether it was the case or not.

 

[williamn]

Not really. It'll only set a precedent if its found there had been something wrong with the process.

 

[junglejames]

Refer to the dates, First Group are quoting 2011 and 2016
In 2011 there were only the 9 car Pendolino in use

There is no difference, and I have been trying to establish why
Remember the Press Release only advises "new seats" and I suspect this simply means new cloth trim and padding materials (replacing all the seat frames would be incredibly expensive)

Basically the trains arent getting extra seats crammed in as the nae sayers tried to claim would happen. This also suggests the shop is not being converted into seats.

As for new seats. Ive never heard the term new seats being used for new seat trim before. Whenever ive heard the term 'new seats' it really has meant new seats. So im expecting the pendys to receive a good refurb, with brand new seats, but there wont be extra seats crammed in as part of it.

 

[Geezertronic]

Basically the trains arent getting extra seats crammed in as the nae sayers tried to claim would happen. This also suggests the shop is not being converted into seats.

As for new seats. Ive never heard the term new seats being used for new seat trim before. Whenever ive heard the term 'new seats' it really has meant new seats. So im expecting the pendys to receive a good refurb, with brand new seats, but there wont be extra seats crammed in as part of it.

If anything, they'd be better to convert a First Class coach to Standard Class on the 9 coach sets. If that is possible it could add an extra 15-20 seats or something like that

 

[junglejames]

...but what about the 3+2 seating and the 800 job losses and the lack of any catering and all the other nonsense?

But thats not it.
Its the 3+2 bus type seats crammed in to make less legroom.
The 142s themselves slowly coming on stream to replace the pendys, which themselves will be sent to the scrapman.
The staff all suddenly becoming miserable gits, and purposely making the trains late.

Have no fear. Come December, trains will suddenly start running late for no reason, and staff will change their smile to a scowl. Mark my words

 

[rail-britain]

Whenever ive heard the term 'new seats' it really has meant new seats. So im expecting the pendys to receive a good refurb, with brand new seats, but there wont be extra seats crammed in as part of it.

First Group have done it before (First ScotRail)
For their Class 156 units the seat frames remained
For the current Class 170 refurbishment the seat frames have also remained
In both of the above only the seat padding and material was replaced
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If anything, they'd be better to convert a First Class coach to Standard Class on the 9 coach sets. If that is possible it could add an extra 15-20 seats or something like that

Also the 11 coach sets (Class 390)
Refer to previous posts, Coach G is to be downgraded to Standard with a new seating layout, with these seats then sold as Club Class

 

[All Line Rover]

Link

Not a single quantitative reason is provided which explains why Virgin should keep the franchise as opposed to First. Yet tens of thousands have signed a petition.

 

[HH]

40,000 now.

Obviously most people don't know the ins and outs of what's involved, but I think its pretty rare to get that many people motivated to sign something about a TOC!

6,000 per hour and staff are handing out leaflets asking people to join the petition. It will get to 100,000; that looks certain.

Having read the 51 reasons, I feel like starting a counter-petition:

1. Which TOC failed to deliver the 140mph operation it promised
2. Which TOC then asked the taxpayer to subsidise it's operation to the tune of several hundred million pounds
3. Which TOC made £126m profit in Financial Years 2010 & 2011, £113m of which was paid for by the taxpayer through revenue support
4. Which TOC has the smelliest train toilets in the country, despite new trains and 10 years to fix them

Add yours here...

 

[All Line Rover]

The number of signatures are not surprising when Virgin have persuaded people such as Alan Sugar (over 2 million followers on Twitter) to encourage people to sign the petition.

 

[HH]

There are a few down the years who have worked in both divisions, most noteably Dave Kaye who was MD of FNW for a while before going to FGE for the last few years of the franchise after Bob Breakwell stepped back a bit. Before and after his stints in UK rail he worked at a high level in the bus side.

True. Dave is an exception, and a good bloke too.

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Giles Fearnley First's Managing Director UK bus was formerly Chairman of Grand Central and MD of Prism Rail http://www.firstgroup.com/latest_news/?id=006841

Yes, but despite this I believe he is a bus person IIRC.

 

[Geezertronic]

1. Which TOC failed to deliver the 140mph operation it promised

No TOC failed to deliver this as far as I am aware...

4. Which TOC has the smelliest train toilets in the country, despite new trains and 10 years to fix them

Won't that mainly be the responsibility of Angel Trains though?

 

[HH]

The bus operations must be quite a bit harder to manage, with a mix of 'rolling stock', a mix of drivers (if Hatfield or even London is anything to go by, there are plenty of dodgy drivers on buses) and even the fact that there might be genuine competition that doesn't exist on many rail franchises. Oh, and rising fuel costs.

Throw in cuts for subsidised routes all over and I'd probably not want to work for a bus company.

Bus driver pay and T&Cs are pretty poor IMO, so the surprise might be that they aren't worse; to be fair this is part of the bus problem - everything is done on the cheap.

Still, arguably others do a better job, and First have the resources to be right at the top of the pile. Stagecoach appear to be handling the problems far better than First. From what I've seen the First business model is flawed.

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No TOC failed to deliver this as far as I am aware...

It was all Railtrack's fault, eh? I think if Virgin are going to claim credit for things that others achieved, then they should also take the blame for other's failures.

Won't that mainly be the responsibility of Angel Trains though?

Virgin, according to their website, are fully responsible for the introduction of the trains. That must include the toilets, no?