-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
3000 applicants so far for TPE trainee dvr jobs!
- Thread starter DI
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Lord Thorpe
New Member
- Joined
- 30 May 2012
- Messages
- 1
....Would take "too" long, not "to" long. What was that about spelling and grammar again? !!!
doubleamber
Member
Flyboy.
Its maybe they think your over qualified.
I think its safe to say If you have not heard yet then you have been unsuccessful this time.
Oh well, try again next time.
Its maybe they think your over qualified.
I think its safe to say If you have not heard yet then you have been unsuccessful this time.
Oh well, try again next time.
Lanc688
Member
Guys,
I don't think Flyboy intended to offend or belittle. Possibly he is overqualified who knows. Can anyone really put their hand on their heart and say they know what profile that each TOC are looking for?, there may be a good idea, but also I'm sure that much of the battle is won through that initial contact phase, whether that be via Application, CV or contacts.
Back to the topic.....If anyone does receive an 'invite', please keep us updated as it's certainly good to know how other guys are doing; any info flow could well help the rest of us one day and it's always helpful to learn from others experience.
Clearly there's always the little thought that we may soon be in competition with each other, however I would suggest that us few that take the time to research and post on here already show what might be construed as a modicum of dedication and so stand a better chance than many from word go
Regards
Lanc
I don't think Flyboy intended to offend or belittle. Possibly he is overqualified who knows. Can anyone really put their hand on their heart and say they know what profile that each TOC are looking for?, there may be a good idea, but also I'm sure that much of the battle is won through that initial contact phase, whether that be via Application, CV or contacts.
Back to the topic.....If anyone does receive an 'invite', please keep us updated as it's certainly good to know how other guys are doing; any info flow could well help the rest of us one day and it's always helpful to learn from others experience.
Clearly there's always the little thought that we may soon be in competition with each other, however I would suggest that us few that take the time to research and post on here already show what might be construed as a modicum of dedication and so stand a better chance than many from word go
Regards
Lanc
Last edited:
doubleamber
Member
Will do, and in the good spirit of it all, may the best man win!!
Great post.
The point I was trying to make is that there are other considerations for becoming a train driver. Qualities such as humility, enthusiasm and honesty are probably just as desirable as current or previous work experience (in my opinion anyway).
You've hit the nail on the head with your last point, too. Of the 9 on our intake 3 or 4 had used this site to glean information from during our recruitment. From my experience this site was an invaluable tool for each stage of the application process.
notadriver
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 3,737
Very nice post BLS. As a driver I'm more than happy to help out on the gateline with travel enquiries, helping visually impaired people around the station or on and off, helping parents with buggies up and down stairs while I'm waiting or on my to start/finish my break or even after I've just handed over. I'll even help the litter team pick up old newspapers in the few minutes I have at a terminus to help speed up dispatch.
I'm like this because I've had hard jobs and appreciate what I have. I see a lot of new drivers new to the industry who treat cleaning staff, dispatch staff like something they've stepped in and that's fact.
notadriver
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 3,737
All sorts of people retrain to be drivers though and I never had trouble getting a job as a bus driver despite being overqualified.
Beveridges
Established Member
Agree with most of your post but Driving trains is not a glamorous job either (unless you work for DRS and drive 37s, or railtours with heritage traction, which is unlikely for anyone to achieve now except very experienced drivers) and many jobs on the railway include hundreds of miles of commuting. How come you want to change from flying to driving trains?
As for other peoples posts about drivers thinking they are superior to despatch staff etc that is nonsense. Driving may be twice the pay, but the job is clearly more than twice the stress, more than twice as productive and then there is crapper shifts as well. A lot of despatchers stay there by choice, not because they are incapable of becoming drivers.
Last edited:
E16 Cyclist
Member
In addition to that a lot of toc's like the customer service experience angle, i know drivers access to the public is limited but they can make the difference between a average or poor customer service experience with a good or excellent experience simply by being courteous and by making announcements in times of disruption.
By highlighting your customer service skills and experience you'll push yourself towards the top of the pile
Really? I didn't know that. I have quite a lot of experience in sales and dealing with the public, thats what i'm working as at the moment. Never thought it'd be a skill applying for this job, but to be honest i'm glad it will come in handy now.
E16 Cyclist
Member
Dealing with the public is a particularly important skill for toc's that operate DOO services as your effectively on your own, also if you think in dealing with an emergency situation again your having to deal with the public in some shape or form.
Just because it not to do with the actual driving of the train doesn't make it any less important
Flyboy
Member
Just to correct one or two misunderstandings and misquotes from my posts above :
BLS - Apologies for the slight error in my second post, my FTPE application back in 2010 was and is the only official one I've been turned down for. The other knock-backs have been from unoffical approaches I've made to various TOCs, and this is probably due to the companies that I've approached who very rarely take on trainee drivers, but it was my choice to aim high.
I'm reasonably confident that the problem doesn't lay with me, and I say that because I've spent time out on the rail network in the cab with a couple of driver managers from different operators who were very interested in my desire to change profession, and at the end of each day they both said they'd be very keen to have me in their team. So although I was well-liked, these guys had no input whatsoever into the recruitment process and their companies hardly ever needed to recruit trainees, so I basically had no chance. It doesn't appear to be a 'who you know' type of industry. It's worth mentioning for the benefit of MR P that I actually made the teas and coffees during my time with these guys, I know my place!
Secondly, I definitely don't consider myself over-qualified and would hope that any operator that I approached would think the same. My job is very similar to that of any train, bus, coach or tram driver and I would NOT consider myself to be better (or worse) than any of those. It must be remembered that in any industry every employee contributes to the end result, and each role is important, so again MR P, I am no better than anyone else, I'm simply a cog in a machine!
If I had an extremely elevated opinion of myself then surely I'd have no interest in changing from being a steely-eyed Sky God (tongue-in-cheek MR P!) to a common as muck Train Driver? (again, tongue-in-cheek MR P!) The fact that I do surely says something about me.
Finally BLS, I have to take issue with your journalistic-style misquote about my thoughts towards those who got further than I in the FTPE 2010 selection process. I made it quite clear in my post that I did not wish to discredit their skills and experiences, also, I didn't say that they got the job, they simply got through to the second stage. I was rejected specifically because I didn't reach the required score in regard to "relevant skills", and I mentioned the other two guys because one was a station customer services advisor (not sure of the correct title) and the other was a Guard. So, considering how the first stage of selection works, I would argue any day of the week that I should score at least equal, if not slightly more, in regard to "relevant skills" than them, do you not agree? This is not pouring scorn on them, but simply using them to prove a point about the crux of the issue - the selection process. You're quite correct in your later post about other factors playing an equally important part to current or previous work experience, but again, I was making a point about the specific reason behind my rejection, (relevant skills) and in that regard current or previous work experience is a crucial factor.
As Lanc688 said, who knows what profile each TOC is looking for, I guess sometimes vacancies are advertised to all even though it's simply an exercise in promoting from within. In September 2009 the First Group website listed vacancies for both Qualified and Trainee Train Drivers at First Hull Trains, it transpired that they only wanted one driver who must be immediately productive - their own words. There were 400 applicants and I think it's frankly out of order that a lot of unqualified applicants wasted a lot of their time completing the online application when they were never going to get through!
notadriver - you make a very valid point about appreciating what you have because of the jobs you've had before. I know many in my profession who treat cleaners and despatchers (refuellers and baggage handlers too) like something they've stepped in, and I don't like that. Like I said above, every person has an important part to play in making the customer happy.
Beveridges - When I was 12 years of age I decided that I was going to be a Pilot or a Train Driver. I chose flying as my primary goal simply because I flew an aeroplane before I drove a train. I'm immensely proud to have reached my primary goal, but the industry that I joined is a very different beast today in many many ways and I would feel a lot happier out of it. Train Driver was my second choice so that's where I'd like to go next, however, it was easier to get into aviation than it is into the railways, in my opinion.
BLS - Apologies for the slight error in my second post, my FTPE application back in 2010 was and is the only official one I've been turned down for. The other knock-backs have been from unoffical approaches I've made to various TOCs, and this is probably due to the companies that I've approached who very rarely take on trainee drivers, but it was my choice to aim high.
I'm reasonably confident that the problem doesn't lay with me, and I say that because I've spent time out on the rail network in the cab with a couple of driver managers from different operators who were very interested in my desire to change profession, and at the end of each day they both said they'd be very keen to have me in their team. So although I was well-liked, these guys had no input whatsoever into the recruitment process and their companies hardly ever needed to recruit trainees, so I basically had no chance. It doesn't appear to be a 'who you know' type of industry. It's worth mentioning for the benefit of MR P that I actually made the teas and coffees during my time with these guys, I know my place!
Secondly, I definitely don't consider myself over-qualified and would hope that any operator that I approached would think the same. My job is very similar to that of any train, bus, coach or tram driver and I would NOT consider myself to be better (or worse) than any of those. It must be remembered that in any industry every employee contributes to the end result, and each role is important, so again MR P, I am no better than anyone else, I'm simply a cog in a machine!
If I had an extremely elevated opinion of myself then surely I'd have no interest in changing from being a steely-eyed Sky God (tongue-in-cheek MR P!) to a common as muck Train Driver? (again, tongue-in-cheek MR P!) The fact that I do surely says something about me.
Finally BLS, I have to take issue with your journalistic-style misquote about my thoughts towards those who got further than I in the FTPE 2010 selection process. I made it quite clear in my post that I did not wish to discredit their skills and experiences, also, I didn't say that they got the job, they simply got through to the second stage. I was rejected specifically because I didn't reach the required score in regard to "relevant skills", and I mentioned the other two guys because one was a station customer services advisor (not sure of the correct title) and the other was a Guard. So, considering how the first stage of selection works, I would argue any day of the week that I should score at least equal, if not slightly more, in regard to "relevant skills" than them, do you not agree? This is not pouring scorn on them, but simply using them to prove a point about the crux of the issue - the selection process. You're quite correct in your later post about other factors playing an equally important part to current or previous work experience, but again, I was making a point about the specific reason behind my rejection, (relevant skills) and in that regard current or previous work experience is a crucial factor.
As Lanc688 said, who knows what profile each TOC is looking for, I guess sometimes vacancies are advertised to all even though it's simply an exercise in promoting from within. In September 2009 the First Group website listed vacancies for both Qualified and Trainee Train Drivers at First Hull Trains, it transpired that they only wanted one driver who must be immediately productive - their own words. There were 400 applicants and I think it's frankly out of order that a lot of unqualified applicants wasted a lot of their time completing the online application when they were never going to get through!
notadriver - you make a very valid point about appreciating what you have because of the jobs you've had before. I know many in my profession who treat cleaners and despatchers (refuellers and baggage handlers too) like something they've stepped in, and I don't like that. Like I said above, every person has an important part to play in making the customer happy.
Beveridges - When I was 12 years of age I decided that I was going to be a Pilot or a Train Driver. I chose flying as my primary goal simply because I flew an aeroplane before I drove a train. I'm immensely proud to have reached my primary goal, but the industry that I joined is a very different beast today in many many ways and I would feel a lot happier out of it. Train Driver was my second choice so that's where I'd like to go next, however, it was easier to get into aviation than it is into the railways, in my opinion.
notadriver
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 3,737
Nice post Flyboy. Apply again - it seems to be as much about luck as anything else but if you really want to increase your chances I think you should apply to London TOCs (when they advertise) and be prepared to move. Suburban work is boring, tedious and repetitive but at least it's a foot in the door.
I think the more prestigious intercity TOCs that may have recruited externally no longer do as they have so many qualifieds to choose from. Salaries for those TOCs are approaching the 60k mark - is that getting near to a pilots salary ?
I think the more prestigious intercity TOCs that may have recruited externally no longer do as they have so many qualifieds to choose from. Salaries for those TOCs are approaching the 60k mark - is that getting near to a pilots salary ?
Flyboy
Member
Thanks notadriver.
The more prestigious TOCs/FOCs were the ones I initially approached, and it was top floor people that I contacted in each, I even doorstepped Ian Yeowart just before he left Grand Central and spent an hour with him in his York office. Grand Central were just about to start their Bradford - King's Cross services which would have been perfect for me. I'd done my research on Ian and he was impressed with what I knew of him and GC.
All these guys were very keen to know my story and why I wanted to leave my current job, but in the end their bottom line was always exactly as you said - they have no need to recruit trainees as they have plenty of qualified applicants banging down their doors. Heavy Union involvement as well as economics have probably driven this change in recruitment at the top end of the market, good if you're on the inside but not on the outside.
£60k is certainly on a par, in fact I'm sure some members of this forum will be aware that nowadays there are new First Officers joining the industry who are actually paying the employer to fly! It's called 'paying for experience' and that's not a joke, I'm serious. However, to be honest it's never been about the money for me, (within reason of course - £10k would probably be a bit low!) just job satisfaction. I'd do the job for half of that amount just to have such things as overtime, weekends, time and a half, double time, etc. In aviation things like that don't exist, every day of the week is considered equal. Again, strong Union involvement in the railway has helped in that respect, whereas Union involvement in aviation is actually something that's only just got going in the last few years, much too late to reverse any of the major contractual changes that have been happening for years.
On the subject of relocating, that was certainly something I was prepared to consider for the right company, however I came across some TOCs, Northern Rail as an example, who wouldn't even consider an application from someone who didn't already live inside the correct commuting distance! So applying and stating that one would be happy to relocate was out of the question - crazy!
The more prestigious TOCs/FOCs were the ones I initially approached, and it was top floor people that I contacted in each, I even doorstepped Ian Yeowart just before he left Grand Central and spent an hour with him in his York office. Grand Central were just about to start their Bradford - King's Cross services which would have been perfect for me. I'd done my research on Ian and he was impressed with what I knew of him and GC.
All these guys were very keen to know my story and why I wanted to leave my current job, but in the end their bottom line was always exactly as you said - they have no need to recruit trainees as they have plenty of qualified applicants banging down their doors. Heavy Union involvement as well as economics have probably driven this change in recruitment at the top end of the market, good if you're on the inside but not on the outside.
£60k is certainly on a par, in fact I'm sure some members of this forum will be aware that nowadays there are new First Officers joining the industry who are actually paying the employer to fly! It's called 'paying for experience' and that's not a joke, I'm serious. However, to be honest it's never been about the money for me, (within reason of course - £10k would probably be a bit low!) just job satisfaction. I'd do the job for half of that amount just to have such things as overtime, weekends, time and a half, double time, etc. In aviation things like that don't exist, every day of the week is considered equal. Again, strong Union involvement in the railway has helped in that respect, whereas Union involvement in aviation is actually something that's only just got going in the last few years, much too late to reverse any of the major contractual changes that have been happening for years.
On the subject of relocating, that was certainly something I was prepared to consider for the right company, however I came across some TOCs, Northern Rail as an example, who wouldn't even consider an application from someone who didn't already live inside the correct commuting distance! So applying and stating that one would be happy to relocate was out of the question - crazy!
doubleamber
Member
Very surprised you want to leave the airlines flyboy, I read in your previous post you didn't like the travelling, you thought about Eastern air at Humberside? By old instructor flys for them, home overnight; not on bad money and its pretty real flying.
I think there is more people applying for these jobs as train drivers than the airlines !!!
Had my Dear John today, still going to keep trying !!
I think there is more people applying for these jobs as train drivers than the airlines !!!
Had my Dear John today, still going to keep trying !!
Flyboy
Member
doubleamber - my commiserations to you.
Eastern don't have a very good reputation at all, however I have approached them in the past as they're so close. I didn't hear anything back because, just like most airlines, they prefer applicants who have a rating on one of the aircraft types that they operate, and I don't.
People who have considered joining aviation are certainly having second thoughts nowadays given that they have to buy their own licence and there's absolutely no guarantee of a job at the end of training, plus salaries have been frozen for years and terms and conditions are so bad. The younger generation have wisely decided to look at other industries where they wouldn't be treated with utter contempt by senior management, and where things such as weekends exist.
I was asked a while ago to give a lecture to some school leavers about being a pilot, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it given that there's not much I could think of to be positive about, and being a 'glass half full' type of person that was frustrating.
Eastern don't have a very good reputation at all, however I have approached them in the past as they're so close. I didn't hear anything back because, just like most airlines, they prefer applicants who have a rating on one of the aircraft types that they operate, and I don't.
People who have considered joining aviation are certainly having second thoughts nowadays given that they have to buy their own licence and there's absolutely no guarantee of a job at the end of training, plus salaries have been frozen for years and terms and conditions are so bad. The younger generation have wisely decided to look at other industries where they wouldn't be treated with utter contempt by senior management, and where things such as weekends exist.
I was asked a while ago to give a lecture to some school leavers about being a pilot, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it given that there's not much I could think of to be positive about, and being a 'glass half full' type of person that was frustrating.
notadriver
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 3,737
I'm really sorry doubleamber. Keep trying.
doubleamber
Member
Flyboy.
I did think he may of been talking abit if rubbish, I have met the owner of eastern a few times and he does seem a little odd !! But my old instructor has been there 5 years or so now.
I never went commercial for money reasons. 70-80k and as you say not guaranteed a job at the end of it all. I just do it privately now, but even that's slowed with the price of fuel. The bonanza burns 60 an hour as well !!
I did think he may of been talking abit if rubbish, I have met the owner of eastern a few times and he does seem a little odd !! But my old instructor has been there 5 years or so now.
I never went commercial for money reasons. 70-80k and as you say not guaranteed a job at the end of it all. I just do it privately now, but even that's slowed with the price of fuel. The bonanza burns 60 an hour as well !!
SkinnyDave
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 1,242
Sorry to Hear that Doubleamber
Did they email you or send a letter?
Did they email you or send a letter?
doubleamber
Member
SkinnyDave
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 1,242
Sorry to hear that mate.. Keep trying I know I will
doubleamber
Member
SkinnyDave
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 1,242
Not yet mate
But im not getting hopes up on it either, I will just keep plugging away until I get in the Comfy seat
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
But im not getting hopes up on it either, I will just keep plugging away until I get in the Comfy seat
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Last edited:
doubleamber
Member
My surname is B so I'm taking it they are doing it alphabetically .
SkinnyDave
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 1,242
Phil C has got his assesments though?
Dont know if it will be done per depot
Dont know if it will be done per depot
doubleamber
Member
HR usually tell the people who have interviews first, then lets say 100 say thanks but no thanks after a week, then they tell the people who were not successful .
SkinnyDave
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 1,242
Hmm wont be long then 
So is mine but nothing yet.
doubleamber
Member
- Status