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First win Intercity West Coast franchise

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starrymarkb

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I would like a High Speed train e.g. Siemens Velaro D (ICE-3)

I can't remember the family name but I think you mean the ICE-T which is based on the ICE3 but is fitted with a Pendolino Tilt system (sourced from Alstom). Top Speed is 145mph. Problem is they won't fit on the WCML (they are a lot bigger then UK stock)
 
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shaun

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Despite the rolling stock, Virgin were a good company and did an excellent job with the WCML. I personally much preferred travelling on the WCML when it was operated with Mk3s (NOT the Mk2s i should add, no thanks!), but from a customer point of view things had dramatically improved over the years. New stock, faster journeys times, more services, less delays.

Now First are going to have a go, hopefully they'll bring to it what they've already brought to the Great Western Mainline. They again have drastically improved since the early 00s when they had a bad reputation, refurbished all of their rolling stock to a modern standard, and added alot of extra services. Ok perhaps the journey times haven't improved much, but you can't do too much on an old unelectrified railway like the GWML. With a new look for the pendos (nicer seats with any luck, less FC, more spacious and brighter interiors), Voyagers feeling more like (or better than) the Meridians, new services, a chance of getting Volo TV/Travelling Chef etc... i for one am excited by the change. I just hope they haven't overbid and that the walls don't come crashing down far too soon.
 

Aictos

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I can't remember the family name but I think you mean the ICE-T which is based on the ICE3 but is fitted with a Pendolino Tilt system (sourced from Alstom). Top Speed is 145mph. Problem is they won't fit on the WCML (they are a lot bigger then UK stock)

Pity we couldn't see one scaled to the UK gauge, :(
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I can't remember the family name but I think you mean the ICE-T which is based on the ICE3 but is fitted with a Pendolino Tilt system (sourced from Alstom). Top Speed is 145mph. Problem is they won't fit on the WCML (they are a lot bigger then UK stock)

I have travelled on one of these on the Zurich-Stuttgart route - very nice trains from the passenger point of view.
However their technical history is a bit iffy and I'm not sure they are all in service after various bogie problems.
They date from 1999-2004, ie similar to VT's Pendolinos so probably the design is too old, and of course there's the gauge problem.
A consortium of Siemens/Bombardier/Alstom wouldn't be falling over themselves to build just 11 of a reworked design for First.

CAF Oaris, by the look of things, appears to be an interesting design looking for a market, and has only reached the prototype stage.
Surely First don't want to be launch customer for a train designed for "big" railways?
 

WatcherZero

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The franchises aren't simply "given out" like free newspapers. There is a bidding process which must take place first. If beardy et al can't/won't make the best bid, then they will not get the franchise.

Even if Virgin was given the ECML tommorow, this wouldn't mean Pendolino trains being built for the route. There is a seperate process for this (rolling stock procurement). Virgin didn't invent the Pendolino!

Welcome to the forum btw. :p

Its a pity, now that the bid scoring has been released to the bidders we learn Virgin actually beat First on the majority of scoring and was ranked higher overall (they were rated better than First at increasing loadings for example that everyones criticising Virgin for) though there were some dodgy ratings by Government, for example marking Firsts rolling stock strategy higher even though they hadnt actually signed agreements with manufacturers to procure the rolling stock they planned to introduce which Virgin had. In the end it came down to money. First bid 15% more than Virgin and the Governments rules only allowed giving to a higher scored lower bid if there was less than a 10% difference in bid price.
 

sprinterguy

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personally i think the goverment should give richard branson Virgin East Coast now theve refused him more than once they should give him the chance now

we could see pendos on east coast aswell as west coast
Virgin gaining a franchise does not mean that Pendolinos will automatically appear. The future rolling stock policy for the new East Coast franchise is already largely decided, and it will be receiving IEP trains to replace the HSTs and to provide additional capacity, with a further option for another batch of IEPs to replace the 91s and mark 4s at a future point.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Voyagers are not cleared on the route as yet and will First want to run more diesels up the WCML or will they even be allowed to?
Given that the Shrewsbury services form part of the franchise commitment, I would have thought that First would not have been awarded the franchise if they were not going to be able to deliver them. There already is one Voyager diagram on Euston - Birmingham & Wolverhampton, so it shouldn't cause much upheaval in extending some Wolverhampton services to Shrewsbury with Voyagers.
 

Whistler40145

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Please correct me, but isn't the CAF Oaris operated by RENFE on High Speed services, in fact I travelled on one from Barcelona to Madrid a couple of years ago.
 

sprinterguy

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I find it interesting that First say they will supply longer trains....but where are the longer platforms going to come from,because they will have to pay NWR to extend shortened ones,now across the country there are loads that wouldn't take the extended length trains. So there is one cost that First will have to pay for,then if that happens the track will have to be aligned to the platform(mind the gap)so further cost...just a couple of pointers.Oh and the overheads would have to be re-aligned
Platform extensions have already been put in place during the current franchise to accomodate 11-car Pendolinos. First are not introducing any trains that will be any longer than the present maximum train lengths with Virgin.
 

Whistler40145

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Oops, I've done it again. The train I travelled on in 2008 looked similar to the CAF Oaris, what type of train was it?
 
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Losing Virgin trains is a great loss to Britain's Railways. Different thinking to a bus company.
The journos at Blackpool Gasjet report Blackpool to have through trains to London http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/n.../blackpool-could-win-in-virgin-loss-1-4832655
Probably First will run them via Bolton Manchester to muscle in on local traffic.
For me (BPS) it will be change at Preston, and get there faster!
The no 1 consideration for me is price.
On the next tender in 15 years could we see First National Rail (inc First Scot)?
If a future Government said they would Nationalize the railways I would vote for them!
 

RPI

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Losing Virgin trains is a great loss to Britain's Railways. Different thinking to a bus company.
correct me if i'm wrong, but VT is 49% Stagecoach, which were, last time I checked, a bus company!
 

tbtc

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correct me if i'm wrong, but VT is 49% Stagecoach, which were, last time I checked, a bus company!

Yes, but everyone conveniently forgets about Stagecoach's involvement and thinks that Branson singlehandedly turned things around (because it makes for a better story). Daft, I know...
 

calc7

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To be fair, the company culture and values are certainly Virgin-driven.
 

RPI

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To be fair, the company culture and values are certainly Virgin-driven.
Working for a First TOC myself and it certainly doesn't feel like i work for a bus company! infact, it fells like it's a train company that also just happens to run a few buses here and there (that we also get heavilly reduced travel on in the form of a week ticket for a fiver).
 

ainsworth74

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Working for a First TOC myself and it certainly doesn't feel like i work for a bus company!

The way that I'm lead to believe First are shedding their bus operations that might well be true in the very near future!
 

the sniper

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I've got to say that I'm rather jealous of First TOC staff. There's not much need to buy a PRIV ALR if you work for them! Not until July 2013 anyway...
 

hairyhandedfool

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....That's fine if you live in Wolverhampton or the midlands. There are no trains to get you back to the northwest after an evening in London, so you have to stay in a rip-off London hotel. The last train beyond is at 2100....

I suppose it depends what you define as an evening in London, but if I was travelling long distance for an evening in London, I'd want a hotel for the night (though possibly not central London). Incidentally, the last trains to Manchester and Preston are:

2110 Euston-Preston
2140 Euston-Manchester
2200 Euston-Manchester

For comparison....

2200 Kings Cross-Newcastle
2225 St Pancras-Sheffield
 

RPI

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I've got to say that I'm rather jealous of First TOC staff. There's not much need to buy a PRIV ALR if you work for them! Not until July 2013 anyway...

Something I intend to use to the full!
 

WatcherZero

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More information about First's offering. They will be introducing a "club class" with better seating and free drinks.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...e-says-FirstGroup-boss.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

He also plans to introduce a new club class – with superior seating and free soft drinks – which he believes will create more demand.


‘We are considering a number of ways of improving the passenger experience. I do not want to give away too many details now, but we know passengers want more but are resistant to paying first-class prices,’ he says. O’Toole said it that in exchange for paying more, passengers would be getting more space and better facilities – in effect a ‘club class’ for rail travel between first and standard.

Translated: We realised that a lot of workers and companies are resistant to putting first class travel on their expense claims so we are introducing Club Class so they can pay more without the embarassing accounting trail.
 

junglejames

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But they were introduced for relatively short journeys, not intended for through passengers to London (hence the long waits at Leicester), not getting over 100mph...

We shall agree to disagree.
 

MKB

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On a Birmingham to Euston pendolino yesterday (Saturday), the Train Manager said they'd been told, because of the loss of the franchise, to make sure they dinged all passengers who've forgotten their railcard for the full fare of £212.

I have no idea where £212 comes from -- a Standard Anytime Single is £79.00 -- but the message seemed to be that any discretion that was exercised in the past was no longer to be shown.
 

rail-britain

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Incidentally, the last trains to Manchester and Preston are:
2110 Euston-Preston
2140 Euston-Manchester
2200 Euston-Manchester
No changes from December 2012, last train must not leave before :
21:05 Euston - Preston
21:55 Euston - Manchester
 

calc7

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On a Birmingham to Euston pendolino yesterday (Saturday), the Train Manager said they'd been told, because of the loss of the franchise, to make sure they dinged all passengers who've forgotten their railcard for the full fare of £212.

I have no idea where £212 comes from -- a Standard Anytime Single is £79.00 -- but the message seemed to be that any discretion that was exercised in the past was no longer to be shown.

Imagine he's crossing wires with the £211.50 Manchester (and other stations in that cluster) to Euston FOS.
 
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