First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[387star]

Will all the nameplates be sold?

 

[richw]

How are you supposed to know if the franchise owner of a McDonalds has changed? The only easy way I know to find out who owns the franchise is to look on the receipt, but normally you'd have no reason to even look at the receipt.

On the railway, the colour of everything changes and (often) you'll hear the franchise owner's name mentioned during every PA announcement, as will probably be the case with First. Then you've got changes to uniforms, websites, publicity material, ect...

customers wont notice the difference in product however which is where the comparison is. All the majority are worried about is getting from A to B on time in comfort. The trains are the same, so comfort shouldnt be an issue, and punctuality shouldnt change much, as the staff and infrastructure will be the same

 

[YorkshireRider]

Be very careful with these numbers.
According to First's post-success presentation , the year on year figures are as follows
From page 18:=
http://www.firstgroup.com/assets/pd...Coast_franchise_award_presentation_150812.pdf
£ Millions

2013 -£11
2014 £26
2015 £106
2016 £178
2017 £265
2018 £325
2019 £390
2020 £443
2021 £498
2022 £552
2023 £602
2024 £644
2025 £697
2026 £739

so it's going to take 4 years before it even matches Today's £160 million.
I dislike back-end loaded solutions immensely because so much can change in that time frame

Could'nt agree more, however with £190m been the penalty for handing back the keys, First dont really have to worry too much about what can change, as from 2017 it clearly just pays to give them back if the s..t hits the fan. Would have been intresting to see if the Dft had said the penalty would be stripping of all their other franchises, if First would have dare still put this bid in, i doubt it.

 

[WatcherZero]

Just announced, Blackpool service will be one train per day from Dec 2013 extended from Preston rising to five trains per day in Dec 2016.

Also confirmed job freeze and 'new seating throughout'

 

[Morgsie]

Blog by Patrick Burns (West Midlands BBC Political Editor): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19271518

 

[voyagerdude220]

My question is: Roughly what length of time will it take for catering plans to be finalised? What will be provided in FC?
I hope kvr45 is right regarding advance fares. Particularly Preston to Brum, where First Advance's are usually more than the anytime fare. I also feel a more 'even ratio' for advance ticket availability in regards to how busy services are. (e.g. I've got the 1000 GLC BHM a few times and only had 3 or 4 of us in FC)

 

[dvboy]

There are plans for much better systems that First's other TOC's use to be applied to West Coast.

can you explain?

 

[jon0844]

For people travelling alone and not wanting to leave their stuff, or indeed groups where it's hard to carry lots of food/drink, I personally think a good trolley service is better than a shop.

Apart from wanting to stretch your legs, how many people walk to the shop or cafe bar these days? Most probably want a Kit Kat or some crisps, and a tea or coffee, having had something more substantial before boarding from the many places at the station.

For those saying that Crewe has virtually nowhere to get food or drink, would it not make sense to open some more places on the platform/concourse than have to provide many more shops on the trains?

Now for first class, or perhaps trains in the morning or evening peak, perhaps there's scope for offering more but it has to be good enough to entice people away from a BK or Upper Crust, and not suddenly be unavailable at short notice leaving people hungry.

 

[Hazlehead]

Just announced, Blackpool service will be one train per day from Dec 2013 extended from Preston rising to five trains per day in Dec 2016.

Also confirmed job freeze and 'new seating throughout'

Where this announced?

 

[387star]

Innovation would be an M and S shop onboard selling only their stuff but with some profit heading Firsts way

 

[Class 33]

I'll miss Virgin; the excellent livery for sure! The Pendolinos will not look right without the badge. Really Virgin have delivered a massive change and if that doesn't win a franchise, nothing will. But good luck to First and I just hope that their new seats aren't the HST ones

Yes those high back seating First put in their HST's is truly truly dreadful! Allmost as if you're in a seating cubicle really, as you can't see down the carriage when you're sat down. The old style HST seating was perfect! http://www.flickr.com/photos/glenhsparky/4402844285/ Let's have more comfortable seating, none of this awful high back seating again please!

Wonder if First will use the same liveries as their other trains, or go with a brand new exclusive livery for the West Coast services?

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Does this mean now we will lose the Bearded one from UK trains?

Branson says he wanted to improve the travelling experience - was he successful?

The short answer is "yes".

 

[Pen Mill]

Could'nt agree more, however with £190m been the penalty for handing back the keys, First dont really have to worry too much about what can change, as from 2017 it clearly just pays to give them back if the s..t hits the fan. Would have been intresting to see if the Dft had said the penalty would be stripping of all their other franchises, if First would have dare still put this bid in, i doubt it.

Now that really puts the whole thing into perspective. £190 mill is a veritable duck's phart against the £1,150 mill (NPV £739 at 3.2%)they will have to fork out in 2026
In fact almost a half of the total premium is payable in the last 4 years 2023-2026 so that they haven't got any other choice but to walk away.

It means that all of the speech and rhetoric and we can deliver this & that is incidental and as long as First's shareholders are happy then the public are also incidental.

Please take note that I'm not saying that the Virgin bid is constructed in any other way because I don't know.

What I am saying is that the whole process is imho rendered farcical when all of the numbers can be pushed to one side for 10 years .

Am I simplifying things ?

 

[All Line Rover]

Judging by availability of Advance fares on other First TOCs I would expect the general availability to increase, especially on certain flows or times. I regularly see the direct non-stop Manchester - Euston train in a morning, and it never seems more than half full, if that, especially in First Class. Yet try and get an Advance fare on that.

First like Advance fares and I think can fill lots of the empty seats at certain times by using them more widely. They are also an advantage as ALL the money goes to that TOC.

I completely agree with this. Although Railcard holders have had it remarkably easy with Virgin, non-Railcard holders have most certainly not.

Monday to Thursday, there are NO Advance fares on Manchester departures between 06:00 and 07:00. Barring the too-early-for-almost-everyone 05:05 departure, the minimum fare for any non-Railcard holder who wishes to arrive in London before 10:23am is a staggering £126!

Yet, in my experience, these services are half-empty in Standard Class and 2/3 empty in First Class. That's before you take Railcard holders out of the equation.

I sincerely hope First's fares structure for the WCML will be more practical and sustainable, as well as raising more revenue (which doesn't necessarily mean massive fare rises - at least for passengers who are able to book well in advance). What we need is more bums on seats, even if it means those in First Class are no longer able to get a table of four to themselves.

 

[marl333]

What impact is this likely to have on commuters such as me?

I travel from Piccadilly to Euston every Wednesday. I have to arrive between 12 and 12.30 to get to the office for 1. I buy advance tickets as soon as they are released. I return on Thursday evening as soon after 18.45 I can afford, generally the 19:40 from Euston.

I rely on advance tickets and am concerned that my commute will go through the roof. Any ideas? An off-peak return on Virgin is not cheap for me. It's way more than the advance tickets I buy.

 

[All Line Rover]

What impact is this likely to have on commuters such as me?

I travel from Piccadilly to Euston every Wednesday. I have to arrive between 12 and 12.30 to get to the office for 1. I buy advance tickets as soon as they are released. I return on Thursday evening as soon after 18.45 I can afford, generally the 19:40 from Euston.

I rely on advance tickets and am concerned that my commute will go through the roof. Any ideas? An off-peak return on Virgin is not cheap for me. It's way more than the advance tickets I buy.

I reckon Advance fares will go up a tier, as it's an easy way to raise revenue. By that I mean the cheapest £12 fares go up to £18, and the £18 go up to £25.

Nevertheless, First might decide to take a radically different approach and massively lower fares on quieter services in order to fill every last seat. We'll just have to wait and see!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Wonder if First will use the same liveries as their other trains, or go with a brand new exclusive livery for the West Coast services?

Some of the branding will be quite difficult to change.
Isn't some of it etched into the window glass?
My last Pendolino run was in "Virgin Difference", so that's one nameplate to change, along with about 30 others.
The "City of ..." series can stay.
"Mission Accomplished" might get a run as "Mission Lost" for a bit.
Time for a return to proper West Coast names: Coeur de Lion, Robert the Bruce, Lancashire Witch, Sans Pareil etc.
First have also retained GW train names - Royal Scot anyone?

 

[All Line Rover]

Delay Repay will also be introduced at last, for any delay of at least 30 minutes. I'm sure Season Ticket holders will greatly appreciate this.

 

[Hazlehead]

Some of the branding will be quite difficult to change.
Isn't some of it etched into the window glass?
My last Pendolino run was in "Virgin Difference", so that's one nameplate to change, along with about 30 others.
The "City of ..." series can stay.
"Mission Accomplished" might get a run as "Mission Lost" for a bit.
Time for a return to proper West Coast names: Coeur de Lion, Robert the Bruce, Lancashire Witch, Sans Pareil etc.
First have also retained GW train names - Royal Scot anyone?

Not etched its just a transfer on the glass. would love see "proper" name plates return and named Pullman trains

 

[Zoe]

The old style HST seating was perfect! http://www.flickr.com/photos/glenhsparky/4402844285/ Let's have more comfortable seating, none of this awful high back seating again please!

Safety is more important, the IC70 seats were not crashworthy.

 

[Class377/5]

can you explain?

I haven't got full details but First is planning to roll out some of its better systems to West Coast from what I understand.

 

[fergusjbend]

How will trains reach Bolton? Via the crowded Platforms 13 and 14 at Manchester Piccadilly?

Fergus

 

[TrainBoy98]

I am sad to see Virgin go but, I'm going to give First West Coast a chance before I start moaning, especially as they don't even start operating until the 9th December. I am happy that they are going to reinstate the old Blackpool direct service from London. I am also happy that they will introduce services direct to Bolton, Telford and Shrewsbury. Oh, and this is why they won, not because they promised they government lots of money; because they promised to run a better service and to connect more places directly to London. Anyway, let's just wait and see how they do. And lets see what eleven, new, six-car, 125mph trains they roll out...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I can't access any of the documents etc regarding this as I'm on BB for a while, so can anyone tell me if there's any detail on stations, aside from the mention of money towards them and gating - is there any actual details?

Cheers

 

[ainsworth74]

would love see "proper" name plates return

What's not 'proper' about the current ones? They're cast metal plates as nameplates have traditionally been...

 

[junglejames]

The former. They'd have to submit a bid to ATOC to get hold of the Warrington to Wigan flow (and there's no way they'd reduce that in price!)

It will only be the really expensive Anytime fares that they reduce, and I can almost guarantee that the Railcard concession will end, plus the usual Super Off Peak trick to increase shoulder-peak prices. But no TOCs ever admit these plans early on and they always use spin to pretend what they're doing is good I'd be shocked if the West Coast franchise ticket structure doesn't go the same, expensive, way as the others, but we'll see...

It already is expensive, and with awful restrictions on Saver tickets.
All First could do is make it more expensive. Im just worried the reduction in Anytime fares will mean Saver tickets rising by around the same to make up. But, we shall see. Dont think anyone outside First know for sure what will happen regarding this.

 

[Hazlehead]

What's not 'proper' about the current ones? They're cast metal plates as nameplates have traditionally been...

No I meant proper names. No virgin this n that n penny the pendolino!

 

[David Goddard]

Will all the nameplates be sold?

I would imagine that VT would remove the nameplates and auction them for charity, as happened with a lot of the nameplates they have removed in recent years.

http://www.sheffieldrailwayana.co.uk/catalogues/0902/mainp.pdf

 

[junglejames]

Safety is more important, the IC70 seats were not crashworthy.

True. Even if the rules are silly. The day trains start crashing day in, day out, is the time i start worrying about IC70 seats.
But yes, no chance of seeing IC70s. Lets just hope we do go comfy seats for the bendy pendys though.

 

[krus_aragon]

Are they not basically just saying "Up to every 12 minutes" as how often the buses run during the day rather than a change in frequency. One route I used had "up to every 15 minutes" on the side of the bus but the service ran every 30 minutes in the evening.

That's what they intend, but that's not how it literally reads. "Up to every 12 minutes" says it could be every 10 minutes, every 8 minutes, even every 5 minutes, but not every 20 minutes. Similarly, some shops advertise a "up to half price" sale, when they really mean an "up to half price off" sale.